19th Century Bat on Ebay...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

What do you guys think of this bat? http://tinyurl.com/2nob98 ~Seems like it went cheap to me....1860s? or earlier?

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Posted By: John Harrell

Dan,

It's a town ball bat, probably from the 1860's. I'd say the price was very reasonable.

John

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I guess I just don't see these bats enough to really tell what one should sell for, but $250 seems really low to me for this style.

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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

I've seen just a few and the price was reasonable in my opinion.
Here's a close up of a recently acquired 60's CDV.
One of the guys is holding a flat bat.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jimmy- that's an unusual image. It looks like the middle of winter the way those guys are dressed. But it appears to be very early, perhaps 1865.

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

It is indeed a Town Ball Bat (Massachusettes Style). It did go cheap... would have realized closer to $750 in an auction like Hunt's or a direct sale via Bob McCann.

It did appear to have some significant damage at the extreme barrel end. Perhaps this kept the price down. I know this would have affected my max bid. Still a pretty decent example...

This is typical for ebay... Perhaps many of the best potential (advanced) buyers just missed it, and perhaps the description was not compelling enough to attract the more "novice" buyers.

I also think it's a bad time of year to be peddling stuff... Based on what I currently have listed (as well as recent prices realized) it appears to be a buyers market right now.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The winner of the bat is a bigtime collector...even featured in the Smithsonian Baseball book by Wong.

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

Not surprising.... it is definitely correct for the period. I bet the winning bidder would have been willing to go lots higher (if he had just been bid up by someone else...)

Ebay is funny... some items (like this one) go for way below market value, and others will have about 12 lowball bids, with only two serious snipes at the end. I can't count the number of times that one single underbidder has pushed the winning bid up about 800%.

I am stil trying to figure out what's worse in that scenario... being the underbidder, or being the wining bidder?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I would have bid, but seeing the high bidder on there I just figured "well I'm not getting this one" and let it be. I may not have been the only one to do this.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- isn't that Gary who won it? No, you can't beat him.

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Posted By: Mike H

Yeppers. That is Gary.

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Posted By: Rob L

Here's mine that I purshased from Jason (earlybball) for $600 a couple of years ago.



Rob L

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

That's an absolute beauty Rob... the "flattened" barrel is nicely exaggerated on your example. I have two of these as well. Will try to post some pics over the weekend, when time allows.

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

Can anyone provide some background on "Gary", assuming it's allowed in this forum? (if it's not, I apologize up front for not knowing).

I have always been interested in his "story" as I have certainly been outbid numerous times by this "deep pocketed" fellow. I don't know a thing about him, other than his Ebay ID.

It looks as though Sports collectibles represent just a small percentage of the antique artifacts he collects. Is he a dealer as well? If not, he must have one heck of a big display room!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Not only does he have a display room he has a museum.

it's Gary Cypres...he's featured in the Smithsonian book.

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Posted By: Brock G.

Here is an old news story from SCD that has a couple of pictures of Gary Cypres museum. Quite the collection to say the least.
http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/Default.aspx?tabid=392&articleid=3789&articlemid=1230#1230Articles

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Posted By: Jeremy W.

There was an episode of "incurable Collectors" that detailed the museum/collection. That television show was great, as is "Antique Roadshow". Even when they talk about items that I don't collect, I find myself glued to the T.V.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Gary and I are friends and he has been to my house. He is extremely nice and easygoing, and his museum is a wonderful thing (I haven't seen it in person, only pictures). He loves to have schools bring kids to it so he can walk them through and teach them about the history of sports.

There are many collectors who have thought about building a museum for their collections and weren't able. Even Barry Halper tried and never got it off the ground. Gary was able to do it.

The Smithsonian book shows many fine pieces from his collection but it doesn't show the museum itself. That is a shortcoming, I think.

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

Thanks to all for the info, and thanks to Brock for posting that article. I am definitely visiting Gary's Museum on my next trip to LA.... although it might be self-torture to see all those great items of which I was the under-bidder.

Can't believe I was unaware of this. I wonder how much publicity his museum gets, and how he advertises/promotes it?

It looks enticing and amazing... one can tell immediately that he has exquisite taste.

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Posted By: Mike H

Mark, If I'm not mistaken, the museum is not open to the public. It is private and I have no idea what the process is to gain entry.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I believe if you contact Gary and he is available, he will walk you through it. If I'm correct, he owns a two story building with his office upstairs and the museum downstairs. But don't quote me on that.

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Posted By: Mark

Good info... thanks Barry and Mike! I guess it can't hurt to contact Gary, and at least try my luck. I have to travel to LA for work at least once/quarter, and would relish the opportunity to see what he has put together.

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Posted By: Steve D

Interesting article and bat. Not to take this thread off topic but in Garrison NY there is a restaurant (The Stadium) that is a mini sports hall of fame . It has things like mantles triple crown, Chuck Kleins MVP trophy, Ruths last Yanks contract, Horsnby's silver bat and Cy young awards etc etc et 2000 other items from cards to signed hockey shirts. All the sports are included. It is located 50 miles from NYC on RT 9. If you are in this part of the country it is well worth the visit and the food is decent too!

Steve D

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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but I wanted to share a closer look of the CDV I talked about.
Looks like 3 of the bats are "flat" style.
(You can tell I'm pretty excited with my new scanner. )

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Posted By: David Atkatz

"Mark, If I'm not mistaken, the museum is not open to the public. It is private and I have no idea what the process is to gain entry."

If it's not open to the public, it's not a museum (no matter what he chooses to call it.)

It's a collection.

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Posted By: leon

I have been to Gary's museum....and yes, I would call it a museum. He has it finished out for public display and it looks (and feels) like many museums I have been to. He is a very nice gentleman and a passionate collector. I only briefly met him while there but he was warm, hospitable and friendly. I encourage anyone that has an opportunity to go see it. It's not real heavy on pre-war cards but the memorabilia and other items are fantastic....best regards

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Posted By: Anonymous

Leon is absolutely correct, it is a museum, and I'm sure it's incredible. Contrary to a previous post, there is nothing in the definition of a museum that says it must be open to the public.

Greg

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Posted By: David Atkatz

A museum is a "permanent institution in the service of society and of its development, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, which acquires, conserves, researches, communicates and exhibits, for purposes of study, education, enjoyment, the tangible and intangible evidence of people and their environment."

If it doesn't have to be open to the public, than Barry Halper did have a museum.

As do I.

And most of us here.

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Posted By: David Keller

David - that is "a" definition, but certainly not the only one. Merriam-Webster doesn't mention anything about public access, just that the objects are exhibited....could be to anyone.



"an institution devoted to the procurement, care, study, and display of objects of lasting interest or value; also : a place where objects are exhibited"

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Heck, even I have contributed to the Cypres museum. He bought an old 1947 world series 8mm film from me.

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Posted By: leon

When you go into the Cypres museum it is set up like a museum. Glass cases, small ropes to stay behind, many different rooms with similar themes, large lettering subject cards by each display (and the feel of it being a museum)...accompanies each display. I have seen lots and lots of collections. Gary's is a private museum.

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Posted By: Greg

I would agree that many of us do have museums -- at some point it probably becomes subjective when a collection can be defined as a museum. Not to beat a dead horse or be wise guy, but the above definition for a museum being "open to the public" comes from Wikipedia, not a dictionary. Every major dictionary definition that I've found for a museum makes no mention of it being open to the public.

Greg

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Alright, I'll accept that a museum does not have to be open to the public.

But in that case, I stand by what I said previously. I don't want to sound like a pompous ass, but I have a very serious and well-researched collection of vintage Yankee memorabilia. Just as in any museum, some is on display, but most is in archival storage (a safe deposit box.) My collection is used for scholarly research, education, and entertainment.

SO... I guess I've got a museum.

BTW, what's the point of his collection being "set up like a museum... small ropes to stay behind... large lettering subject cards by each display..." if it's not open to the public?

Kinda like the Doomsday machine in Dr. Stranglove. The point is lost if you keep it a secret.

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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

This is what happens when you revive a 5 month old thread just to show a scan and it turns into a "museum" definition discussion.

Shame on you!