HELP! Please tell me if these cards are genuine...

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Posted By: Gary B.

These are all W-series strip cards. Can anyone tell if they seem to be authentic by the pictures? The thing that's the most suspicious to me is the font, color and clarity of the words, but I very well may be wrong. The seller seems convinced they're authentic. I don't doubt his sincerity (that much), but I do doubt his knowledge, as he's admittedly no expert. He says he's taken these to two card shops and they think they're authentic, but I doubt they're strip card experts either. Anyone? We have a verbal agreement (at a great price), but if I tell him I found out they weren't authentic, he'll understand. Thanks!

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Posted By: Ben

because they are 100% fake, no doubt about it.

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Posted By: Gary B.

How do you know? Before I let this guy know I will not be making a purchase, I would like to tell him why I know these are fakes. More info please...

Thanks so much!

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Posted By: Ben

here's an authentic example of a w551 Cobb


You have already touched on the main reason why these cards are obvious fakes- the printing on the captions. After you've seen and owned a few genuine prewar examples, you'll know that these large, rounded, block-like letters are a modern type-set (David, please help me put this more eloquently!).

You can also tell, albeit to a lesser extent, that these cards are fakes because of the smooth and often glossy card stock (this would be more obvious if you had the cards in hand). Genuine strip card examples DO NOT shine when light is reflected on them, and are NOT smooth to the touch. I think the best way to decifer between authentic cards and fakes is to own a few cheap ones, study them and get accustomed to their look/feel, and then move forward to the Ruth's and Cobb's when you feel more confident about what they should look and feel like. Hope this helps a bit, and by all means, if you have more questions, ASK AWAY- this board is an unbelievable information resource with many, many knowledgable collectors and hobby heavyweights reading and posting daily!

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Posted By: Gary B.

Ben - Thanks so much, I really appreciate it. I was going back and forth with this guy, but decided before I sent him some hard-earned cash, I'd do a little more research. It would have been a great deal financially if they were authentic....oh well.

I used to collect baseball cards when I was young, sold them all in my late teens (including my t206 mathewson and a whole lot of other stuff i wish i had back right now), and that was it for me. I still was a baseball fan, but didn't really keep up with it until the McGwire and Sosa thing in 98. Since then, I follow it avidly, and have gotten back into collecting. Anything pre-1970 is of interest to me, and the pre-1950's stuff especially. I got all excited because I realy want to get my hands on some kind of affordable period Ruth and Cobb card at some point, but obviously only when the cards are authentic. It's a little frustrating starting from scratch, and boy has ebay changed the industry in the last few years. While cards are much easier to find these days, it seems that good deals are tough. It constantly amazes me that while there is a constant stream of millions of items flowing through ebay for sale all the time, there are just as many buyers all the time looking for every little obscure item, so the chances of seeing something and getting a fantastic deal is getting harder and harder, as the competition to buy everything seems so fierce. Baseball card stores (in my limited experiences these days) seem SO overpriced, and shows are the only places where the hope for a good deal can be found, unless you really get lucky with ebay.

Anyway, glad to have found this forum with the people who are experts in the older cards that are by far the most intriguing....

Gary

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Gary:

Not only are the card's obvious reprints, but the seller is scamming you with his story. A common practice (among many others) of counterfeiters on E-Bay is to claim they are not experts (thus disavowing their responsibility when you discover the cards are fake while also tantalizing you with the possibility the cards may be real) and that they have taken them around to various card stores and had them examined by more experienced dealers (this never actually happened) in order to heighten the perceived possibility of authenticity while not actually providing you any real information or assurance. Think: If a guy would bother taking his cards to multiple stores t verify authenticity (with no LOA's available or credible), why not send the cards to PSA for grading and authentication when the results (if the card were authentic) would be a much higher sale price. It's because their scamming you. Another tactic is to try and make a deal off E-Bay--thus eliminating the possibility of negative feedback.

As another poster pointed out--good job in asking questions BEFORE buying.

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Posted By: steve k

Gary - unless you own a card shop or have a booth at a card show and somebody walks-up who just wants some quick cash and sells some stolen or whatever cards at a fraction of their value, you are never going to receive some "great deal" on vintage baseball cards. You can 100% assume in this day & age of the internet, etc., that anyone with a bunch of "old cards" fully knows the value before selling them. And as was pointed out, never believe the so-called "story" about the cards - the "story" is always BS.

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Posted By: leon

With all due respect that is just not a true statement. I, and many others on the board, have gotten great deals in the last year. You just have to look a lot harder/longer and have some luck I personally, not to brag and only to make the point, have gotten about 4-5 really good deals in the last year. Some E99's for less than $100 each, a Fleischmann card with coupon for about $75, and the big kahuna (about 790 cards, some uncatalogued and extremely rare, from a guy that was on ebay) for a fraction of their real value...... take care...

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Posted By: steve k

Leon - I understand what you are saying but I was referring to "great deal" in the context of the thread to guide the original poster. Someone unfamiliar with particular types of vintage cards is definitely not going to get a "great deal" out there. If it seems to someone unfamiliar with particular types of vintage cards to be a "great deal" then the chances are virtually 100%, if not totally 100%, that it will be a rip-off or scam of some sort. I am familiar with 50's and 60's baseball cards like the "back of my hand" and do a fair amount of selling and buying of 50's and 60's cards on ebay, and have recently been buying some pre-WW1&2 cards. But I still have a ton to learn about these pre-WW1&2 cards. Now if someone offered me a "great deal" on a shoebox full of T-206's with a book of $250,000 for a price of $5,000 would I take it? Definitely not! This poster should not take this "great deal" either.

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Posted By: Gary B.

Thanks everyone. Well, I didn't take the deal as I had the wherewithall (sp?) to investigate further before sending payment, but it was DAMN close. Kind of annoying in that this guy was really great at communication when we were making the deal, but when I told him the deal was off and why, I haven't heard a peep. He also told me he got the cards from his recently passed away great grandfather! Unbelievable and pathetic. I know there are people out there who do this kind of thing (and far far worse things too), but it never makes sense to me.

People hit on something I was saying about ebay and the internet. For me, a man of not incredibly plentiful funds (at least not right now), it's tough to build up any kind of collection without being lucky and finding some great deals, as these days it seems like practically everyone knows what something is worth and wants top dollar for it, or puts it up for auction in a forum so popular (read: ebay) that I'm competing with so many people who usually do have more plentiful funds than I. Makes it very difficult for sure.

This was all a good lesson though, and thankfully I learned it BEFORE losing some cash. Hey, if anyone has any genuine period Ruth or Cobb cards for sale at a reasonable price, doesn't have to be in great condition, doesn't have to be a t206 cobb or a goudey ruth, just something decent, please do let me know...

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Posted By: leon

In the context of this thread you are absolutely correct. Almost always if it seems to good to be true......it is. I was only making the point that, if you have experience and perserverance, there can still be good deals to be had albeit not in the under 1930 category on ebay. Too many folks there to get a great deal.....regards

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Posted By: Gary B.

Not only was this person (on a different auction site besides ebay) selling fake cards (I checked some of his other cards against ebay images of graded cards and found other differences), he was actually OUTBIDDING himself using a not even well disguised alias to try to inflate the prices of his auctions. I reported him to the website, because enough is enough. Telling people you have a recently deceased relative, saying you went to card stores to verify authenticity, and then trying to drive your prices up to rip people off even more by bidding on your own auction? I had enough of it...

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Posted By: Jeff S

Gary,

You said that it's tough on limited funds to amass much of a collection ... which feels true, but really isn't. First of all, if you decide on a couple things you like (T206 cubs, maybe, a couple HOFers you really admire) and focus your efforts on those, you can come up with a pretty nice collection on a budget. And (I speak as an expert here) you can get really great cards for not a lot of money if you don't have high condition standards.

Another thing to consider is that the market in fairly rare pre-war cards has gotten stronger almost continually for decades now. It may be frustrating to spend $50 or $100 every month or two and not feel like you're getting anywhere, especially when you hear about some of the other collections held by people on this board. But keep doing it for a few years, watch the prices go up, and you'll be surprised by what you've amassed.

Good luck!