Thoughts on if I should do something about this????

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels 

1) submitted vintage,rare and somewhat desireable card to SGC a while back for grading.It came back noted "trimmed".
I sold it to one of you for about 1/3rd what I paid for it!

That person RE-submitted it to SGC and put it up on e-bay after SGC GRADED IT!

It is now realizing about 3x what I paid for it or 6x what the seller has into it minus the grading fees!!!

What would you do? Has this ever happened to anyone else on here? : (

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

My dear friend Brian. This just proves what a JOKE the grading services are! I had 2 PSA 3 Magie's, one was MUCH nicer than the other. I popped it out this weekend and resubmitted it to SGC at the FT Wash show, it came back trimmed!!! I told the young female that you "PSA" graded this card less than a year ago in Chicago. I even described the grader because I talked with him when I thought the grade was too low. She says "oh, he doesn't work here anymore". And I say "so that makes my card trimmed that wasn't last year????" Anyway, I won't be giving this card away since I know it isn't trimmed, I will just resubmit it!!!!! And guess what, it will be graded.

So my advice to you is, resubmit your cards before you take a bath on them unless you yourself thinks or knows that the card is trimmed. take care Brian, Dan.

p.s. is our boxing bout still on for Atlantic City?

[Archive]

Posted By: T206Monsta

I don't think anything. You put trust in SGC's grade and so did the person who had it re-slabbed. It sounds "above-board" to me. The line we see 1,000 times rings true again, "Buy the card, not the holder." Maybe the purchaser will break it out and have it rejected.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Dan, was it PSA or SGC? You say it was PSA 3 and you had it REsubmitted to SGC. Can you clarify?

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

See my article in VCBC #30.

ALWAYS RESUBMIT a "TRIMMED" card, especially if it looks good to you to begin with. Don't rely on a grader; rely on your own instincts and experience. Slab 'em for display or sales, 'cuz the peace o mind isn't there.

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

send it to PRO for grading. They'll grade trimmed cards and you can put them on ebay and make a fortune. Check out the T206 Johnson that it going crazy now.
It's a weird world...

[Archive]

Posted By: david

the worst part is that isnt even a good trim job

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

What do you guys think of auction #2714854092?

Just something not right about those borders.

Is it just me?

[Archive]

Posted By: ockday

as I am the high bidder right now!

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I knew better than to post in the morning! My mistake, it was resubmitted to the company that graded it in August, PSA. SGC wasn't even involved in the event, my apologies.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Pete- top boarder looks like it curls up to the left.

Jay

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

what does "buy the card not the holder " have to do with my issue? I submitted a raw card i did not buy any card in a holder per say.......and yes, I put my trust in the grading service,but they should be consistant with there own grading standards.They are demented not knowing the particular issue I submitted commonly looks short...........just like the T-206 Broadleaf 460 series and my newly acquired "pony tail".
They F-ed up.Plain and simple.They are above board but cost me big money as well!

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

so sit back and set a spell.Take your shoes off and relax now,yah here!

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

: )

[Archive]

Posted By: BCD

How about the no holds bared type instead? "Vale Tudo"?
Boxing is fun but I prefer shooting,pulling one down on the ground for the quick arm bar,key lock or lapel choke.There are already three guys on here that will not have anything to do with me after I give them their chance to follow up on the bologna.Especially when they figure out I not only like fighting but am in shape for it. Is it alright if I have Wesley Lui be the ref and cut man? he graduated from the same Gracie Jui-Jitsu(brazilian spelling)Dojo as I and he has blue belt in BJJ as well.Only difference between us is he did not have his handed to him personally from Ralph(Halph)Gracie after spending two three month stints in the hospital after tearing the shoulders out of the sockets in tournament fights(as nurse Koos previously outlined for you).Now be nice,I still have some cards you want.

Wes-I'll see you in Santa Cruz at the Claudio Franco tournament next weekend!!! You should fight on Sunday bro and try to bring a trophy back for the Gracie team!!!last time I fought there was in 1993.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

what the hell is this SGC guarantee:

"SGC guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. In the event the original submitter of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the original submitter may resubmit that card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade. THIS RESUBMISSION MUST BE REQUESTED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF RECEIPT FROM SGC.

If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's option, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card"

What submitter is going to complain that his card was overgraded? And if it is overgraded, why should he get paid for the difference in value upon resubmission? Hey, that Mantle card that I got as a kid for a penny should have been graded a 5 and you guys gave it an 8. I want it graded a 5 and a couple thousand dollars for the differnce in market value.This makes absolutely no sense.

And Brian does raise an interesting point. Assuming SGC extends its guarantee to more than just the original submitter (as apparently they are doing for Jay Miller on his OJ card), why are they willing to protect buyers of an overgraded card but not sellers of an undergraded (or in this case rejected) card? Isn't the seller damaged by their mistake? Why must he resubmit to give them a chance to catch their error? How many times does he have to do this?

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

Answer: follow the money.

SGC used to offer a purchaser's guarantee but stopped. A purchaser is likely to whine about a bad grade; only a moron of a seller would demand that a card he sent in for grading be lowered. The cards are gonna hit ebay instead, as did the card listed in this entry, where many people will buy them on the holder and not raise critical questions about the grades once they receive the items.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

the "G" for guaranty in SGC is really pretty much a joke. Their guaranty is one that they apply when they feel like it, I guess.

I suppose I can understand that they should not necessarily bear the risk of a card receiving different grades upon resubmission. A card submitted three times might get an 84, 86 and 88, and maybe they should not have to pay out to the original submitter/ seller for the difference in the bump. But when they reject a card outright they have greatly reduced its value. If it can be proven that they should not have rejected it, why shouldn't they step up to the plate and pay the submitter for the difference in FMV between the card as correctly graded and the card as rejected? (I know--read the last post- follow the money)

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

Why don't you invent a machine that grades cards (you just drop it in through a slot, it whirrs around a little, then spits out a slabbed card, or at least a slip of paper with a grade and explanations) - Such a machine would remove the subjectivity which is inherently involved in grading, and you could make a mint. Oh, and then we could go back to talking about vintage cards rather than trying to one-up each other on the "SGC vs PSA" debate.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

You know what you can do with your idea.

The thread started with a possible complaint about SGC. I believe I kept on topic-- it it's one about which you don't care, skip it.

I have been a supporter of SGC throughout my membership on this and the other board-- I have not once stated I preferred anyone else. So, I am not trying to "one up" PSA over SGC. In fact, I suspect PSA's guarantee(s) are no different than SGC when it comes to making a mistake about rejected cards. I do not agree that such guarantee is sufficient no matter what grading company is involved.

If you find the whole discussion not worthy of your attention, why don't you go back to your ever vigilant and oft repeating criticisms of the cut-out King, a point that I think we all get by now.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

You seem to have a large arthropod lodged up your posterior.

...and your advice will be taken for exactly what it's worth (one fake Feldman matty)

Care to spar with me Todd? I love tacking mental midgets.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

bring it on, oh master of the universe, to whom the rest of us must defer.

Honestly, I have no idea what's gotten into you, but if you're looking to piss somebody off, you're doing a good job.

Now if you really would like to compare intellects, please proceed, otherwise, take your boorish act elsewhere.

[Archive]

Posted By: LOL

LOL ROF

Scott,your posts replace an ab workout at the gym! My abs work harder from your mix of words you need to wrie a book and sell it 65 times like I did the Slocum book!!! LOL*

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

You don't hear that word much from pimple-faced 24-yr old "experts".

..c'mon Todd, my boorish act is staying put. I can certainly turn my cheek to punches like that last one...MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE - OUCH OUCH OUCH!!!

I'll come forth with my good stuff when you show me some of yours.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Both of ya'll shut up....no figting between team mates.....Don't know how the wrong foot got stepped on but both of ya'll are absolutely good guys....a little verbal sparring is ok but don't start getting serious on me......now get back to work...or uh ...vintage cards......later guys.....now kiss and make up....or at least kiss (just kidding)....

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

But I don't like Todd. I know that doesn't sound very cooperative, and I also realize a lot of people don't like me much - and I'm okay with that, but I see no reason to dilute my words here. Every time I read his voluminous inane responses to every single "PSA or SGC" thread on this board, I bite my lip and close the post...but stupidity really irks me, and this time I lacked the strength to withhold my thoughts.

Todd's correct that I piss a lot of people off, and perhaps as others suspect, I could use some sedatives, but I don't get pissed at EVERYTHING - in fact, I've gone out of my way to praise some dealers that have received unjustified **** from you people. Lately I've attacked the cut-out king quite mercilessly (...and Todd doesn't like that), and I've also attacked the forgery artists (...and I guess Todd doesn't like that either). Like I really care what Todd likes. Actually, I HAVE been bitching a lot lately...and that sucks - I don't like my own attitude sometimes. To sum it up (slowly), though, I'm a bit disappointed in the way the hobby is currently going - too many thieves and weasels showing up and no one seems to give a flip about it. Even the really honest guys out there are being accused of some despicable card dealings. It's kinda like Clinton getting a bj in the White House and everone saying "yeah, but all of them do it..." - we're starting to get too used to thievery and fraud in our hobby. Formerly honest collectors and dealers are starting to sell trimmed cards with watered down disclaimers, when they know damned well the cards are trimmed. Guys with perfect feedback are selling Feldmans as real just to make a quick buck in a tough economy. Kudos to guys like Adam who are also fighting this dirty battle - listen, it's not fun to turn on your email and not know what despicable crap you're going to have to read. Do you think I look forward to it? No, but when I think I can do something, I do it. You guys don't have to - that's your business.

...but I do promise not to further this ridiculous combat - I'll let Todd add another rebuttal and I'll keep my mouth shut. And the next time the PSA vs SGC thing comes up, and Todd adds his 1/2 cents worth, I'll just turn my head and be good.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

As to your prior post:
First, I have never professed to be an expert about anything relating to cards. Seems it's you who feels the need to inject himself into every discussion and to issue proclamations about others' opinions and views. Incidentally, you spend an inordinate amount of time on this thread for someone who appears to be put out and wearied by any discussion of problems with the grading companies. I guess rank has its privileges when it comes to the Chief of the Opinion Police.

Second, I have not seen age 24 since early in Reagan's first term, so whatever poignant blow you intended to deliver by that reference eludes the likes of me. I guess you sought to claim that I am a young man, and as such am not entitled to an opinion.

Normally, I welcome and invite others to review these threads, as it oftens brings new collectors to the board and encourages old ones to contribute. Your self-perceived superior intellect and standing on this board, however, lend credence to some of the elitist criticisms maintained by others, and may keep them away. I am sorry to have fomented that.

As for your final boring attack, I would agree with you on one point-- I too am irked by stupidity. I disagree that I have repeated inane remarks about the PSA SGC "debate"-- please point to some. You post more often than I on those threads by far. Read your latest ad hominem if you really want to see inane blather.

[Archive]

Posted By: B C D

Like in "Say Hey". You guys get out of my inquiry post about the plastic encapsulation game. get out!!! right now!
Todd did you bid on the Ruth M-105-6?? I looked and you are correct.There is limited info on that set.Someone needs to chime in and tell us all about it!

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

...I took your advice! Since I'm not interested in anything you have to say, when I saw your name on the post, I simply DIDN'T READ IT.

It was both easy and fun!

I do have to apologize, however, for calling you a pimple-faced 24-yr old snot-nosed twit (maybe I was just thinking those last two things), but you have to cut me some slack since I was basing my assessment on your board behavior - your writing is very similar to that displayed by the kids that recently visited us from the CU forum. I was surprised to find out that you are a 30-ish lawyer, but that does explain a lot.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

I saw the auction, but didn't bid, mostly because I don't think the card was an m101-6. Do you? I mean, so rarely are these seen, and I certainly am no expert (see above response to Forrest Chump). The guides, however, say that the issue carries the initials "FM" under the copyright symbol, and the Ruth you mention didn't have either a copyright symbol or the initials, at least that I could see. The 2 or 3 of these I've seen over the past year or so (when I first started looking) had these markings. Also, the SCD guide lists Ruth as Babe Ruth, without the quotes on the first name, and this one had quotes. Other players like Gavvy Cravath, Honus Wagner and Rabbit Maranville are listed in the same guide with the quotes. Given all this, I passed.
Still would like to learn more about this set, if you care to share, but we should probably move it to a new thread.
Regards...............Todd

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

I was surprised to find out that you are a 30-ish lawyer, but that does explain a lot.>

Be careful, you are on the cusp of aggravating about 4 or 5 of us here who belong to the noble profession.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

But your on the right side of that issue! : )

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

I don't have anything against lawyers, or any other profession. I got bent out of shape because I reached my "Todd threshhold" and exploded. It was really uncalled for on my part. As Todd pointed out, if I don't like the "kiss PSA's Ass" threads, then I shouldn't read them.