T205 BACKS - Help Please!

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Posted By: runscott

I know there is expertise in this area, and I'm willing to gather it up and create a multipliers list. I can only assume by the lack of response that no one wants to see such a list. Let's talk about it - what are we afraid of?

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Posted By: leon

What are you looking for here? Lew's book, and many other references, give the list. I am not at home so can't throw the list out this second. A multiplier list is given in the SCD too? Might what you are doing already have been done?......just getting it going here......regards all

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Posted By: runscott

Lipsett's guide gives general scarcity info. Also, if something like this is already in VCBC, please refer me to the issue - I'm missing a few so perhaps I overlooked it. Also, since we've had so many questions about this in the past, simply posting a source for multipliers would answer all questions, so let's have it! (Thanks)

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Posted By: BRIAN

Hey Scott

Here's my best guess from rare to common.

1. Drum
2. Hindu
3. Broadleaf
4. Cycle
5. American beauty
6. Polar Bear
7. Sovereign
8. Honest long cut
9. Hassan
10. Sweet Caporal
11. Piedmont

I haven't handled near as many of these as I have T206's, so I'm sure others will correct this list, but you have to start somewhere.
I think most people would agree on the top 3, but 4&5 could switch positions, as well as the remaining common backs. I look forward to seeing everyone else's list. be well brian

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Posted By: runscott

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Posted By: leon

I am not home right now to check but I am almost positive the big book (SCD) has multipliers for the t205 backs in the same exact places as the t206 backs....regards

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

1. Drum 15x-20x
2. Hindu 3x-4x
3. Broadleaf 3x-4x
4. Cycle 2x
5. American beauty 2x
6. Polar Bear 30%
7. Sovereign 30%
8. Honest long cut 30%
9. Hassan 30%
10. Sweet Caporal
11. Piedmont

I think these are close except for the Hindu. I would love to buy any at 3x-4x guide!!! I hope this helps.
Trevor

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Posted By: BRIAN

Hey Trevor

Thanks for adding the multipliers to the list, and I agree I will buy all the hindu's I can find at 3x-4x. 7x-8x is probably a closer multiplier, I never see these, but do see quite a few broadleafs, which are supposed to be just as rare.

be well brian

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Posted By: Brian K. Hodes

I have the backs indexed for my (very near) set of T205s that I am forever (it seems) upgrading. In terms of scarcity I come up with this in order of most common:

1. Piedmonte
2. Sweet Caporal
3. Hassan
4. Sovereign
5. Honest Long Cut
6. Polar Bear
7. American Beauty
8. Cycle

I don't have any of the others, but I do have a blank back.
In terms of premiums or multipliers for price I really haven't seen any consistent evidence of ANY for at least 1-6 above.
The Polar Bears tend to defeat themselves in terms of added value because they usually suffer from product stains on the reverse.
The Hassans for some reason (elaborated by Lipset among others) go along with some of the variations in the set so they do have some added value. But I believe that this is caused by the variations, not the fact that the cards are Hassans.
The added value on 7 & 8 is generally at most 150% although even sophisticated sellers really don't seem to expect much extra for these backs. In fact the only sellers who tend to even reference this on Ebay are those who simply parot the price guides.
Because I am not generally a rare back collector I cannot comment on the other companies although I do see more of Broadleaf than the others (Hindu etc.)
I guess my overall comment would be that T205 collectors are mostly indifferent to the companies so that the few interested in rare backs only really drive up prices on the most rare ones -- otherwise supply seems to satisfy demand for all but the most scarce reverses. The price guides seem to assume that the relative scacity of say Piedmont to Sovereign or Honest Long Cut (well over 3:1) must translate into some price premium on the scarcer of the two (ie a multiplier). It doesn't because most T205 collectors are indifferent to this relative scacity.

Sorry to ramble.
I hope this helps.
Brian H.

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Posted By: runscott

I remember seeing the t206 multipliers in the SCD catl'g and completely ignoring them because they didn't take the "series" or factory desginations into account, nor red vs brown hindu, black vs brown lenox, etc., so it was fairly useless to me. The premium listed for t206 Hindus was 1.25 to 2x, which certainly doesn't follow the market. Also, I'm more interested in actual scarcity, rather than premium (value) multipliers.