Dating a rare type set via online newspaper archives, World Champion Cardinals

[Lucas00]

UPDATE: SGC WILL NOW GRADE THESE!
I sent in my research and notes. Along with my two copies of Red. SGC will now accept them.


Hi folks, its been a while since I've made one of these identification/fun sort of posts. But today I'd like to share my discovery dating the cardinals world champion set.
Before, many people have thought the issue was 1965. Well I just found an article from Nov 5th 1964 stating them as being available starting Nov 15th 1964. Thus making them a 1964 Issue. Exhausted quite literally every online newspaper source looking for some sort of breakthrough and finally I got lucky.

Hoping with this info I can get Sgc to slab them as I think they would like great. Or any other tpg for you all if interested.

Not too crazy of a discovery but cool enough I thought it would be fun to share. Hopefully I have inspired some of you all to try newspaper searching for info on your rare releases.

Also a scan of Red for your viewing pleasure, please share yours.

[doug.goodman]

Congrats Lucas. Fantastic find!

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Congrats Lucas. Fantastic find!

Thank you Doug!

[JLange]

Great detective work! Congrats on finding that bit of info that definitively dates these and brings this set to life!

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by JLange

Great detective work! Congrats on finding that bit of info that definitively dates these and brings this set to life!

Appreciate it Jason, it's definitely not often a set can be pinpointed to an exact date.

[molenick]

Very cool. It's interesting that they would include Musial and Schoendienst (who were not players on the 1964 championship team....Musial was in the front office and Red was, I believe, a coach who became manager after the Series was over) as well as James and Maxvill (who were reserves) but not Gibson, Brock, Groat, McCarver, Flood, Javier, etc.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by molenick

Very cool. It's interesting that they would include Musial and Schoendienst (who were not players on the 1964 championship team....Musial was in the front office and Red was, I believe, a coach who became manager after the Series was over) as well as James and Maxvill (who were reserves) but not Gibson, Brock, Groat, McCarver, Flood, Javier, etc.

Definitely a good question, I think maybe the simple answer is their rights were cheap. Stan and Red were both retired so likely no longer tied to many (if any) deals, so they were easy to pick up. The others Minus Ken (he's the mystery to me). Bill White was decent too, Dal and Charlie weren't the teams best players so probably also fairly affordable additions. Complete hunch but that is what makes sense to me.

[Collectorsince62]

Thanks Lucas. Great information. I have all six cards and will snip the article you posted and keep it with the set. Around that same time just weeks after the '64 World Series victory, Bill White and Ken Boyer appeared at a department store near my home. They were giving away free signed 8x10 black and white photos so perhaps they had personal appearance clauses with photo rights in their contracts. As far as Musial, you'll recall he was made an honorary Cub Scout during the pregame ceremonies at his final game on 9/29/63. He was given a scout neckerchief which he wore during the ceremony and during his car ride around the stadium. That might explain his inclusion in the set even a year later.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Collectorsince62

Thanks Lucas. Great information. I have all six cards and will snip the article you posted and keep it with the set. Around that same time just weeks after the '64 World Series victory, Bill White and Ken Boyer appeared at a department store near my home. They were giving away free signed 8x10 black and white photos so perhaps they had personal appearance clauses with photo rights in their contracts. As far as Musial, you'll recall he was made an honorary Cub Scout during the pregame ceremonies at his final game on 9/29/63. He was given a scout neckerchief which he wore during the ceremony and during his car ride around the stadium. That might explain his inclusion in the set even a year later.

Those are some incredible details that I did not know of that help tie this together way better. I love your first hand accounts with Ken and Bill, I wonder were the department photos identifiable or were they generic?

[bobw]

Originally Posted by Collectorsince62

Thanks Lucas. Great information. I have all six cards and will snip the article you posted and keep it with the set. Around that same time just weeks after the '64 World Series victory, Bill White and Ken Boyer appeared at a department store near my home. They were giving away free signed 8x10 black and white photos so perhaps they had personal appearance clauses with photo rights in their contracts. As far as Musial, you'll recall he was made an honorary Cub Scout during the pregame ceremonies at his final game on 9/29/63. He was given a scout neckerchief which he wore during the ceremony and during his car ride around the stadium. That might explain his inclusion in the set even a year later.

[Beercan collector]

Cool thread - would love to see the others cards .
Boy scouts is a nonprofit Organization perhaps the players involved volunteered

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Cool thread - would love to see the others cards .
Boy scouts is a nonprofit Organization perhaps the players involved volunteered

Here is the full set including a copy of what the Stan Musial Buddy Club (Boy Scout Club) membership card looks like, back shows Stan expressing his Joy for joining the Scouts. And the front is for your name to show off. Photos courtesy of collectorsince62 (he was having trouble uploading).

[Beercan collector]

Nice - they are all very well done

[Lucas00]

Not often that you are able to get a grading company to create a new set that you researched and sent in the information to get created. But I've done just that.
If you own any 1964 Boy Scout World Champion Cardinals Cards SGC will now grade them. I sent in both my Reds and my research, one got a 4.5 and one a 4. They even took my opinion on what the label should read 😄.

[Collectorsince62]

Nice work Lucas. Glad you were successful with SGC, and encouraging to see your research was deemed convincing. As for my set, I'll keep them raw. I wonder how many other full sets of all six exist?

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Collectorsince62

Nice work Lucas. Glad you were successful with SGC, and encouraging to see your research was deemed convincing. As for my set, I'll keep them raw. I wonder how many other full sets of all six exist?

I don't blame you, lots of opinions on grading. Bad and good, I personally love the look and have had only great interactions with Sgc. As for the amount I would bet under 100 full 6 card sets. And would be surprised to ever see more than 10-20 of any player.

[Brent G.]

Lucas, how long had you tried to uncover this info -- months, years, decades?

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Lucas, how long had you tried to uncover this info -- months, years, decades?

Probably about a year total searching when I had time. Of real search time, I'd say probably about 3 or 4 days of actual time spent looking through newspaper archives online. An hour here or there at night.

[h2oya311]

Very cool, Lucas!!! Obscure sets are the best. It’s amazing how much detective work it takes to uncover the mysteries of regional sets like these…nice job!!

[ALR-bishop]

Bravo

[GasHouseGang]

That's a great set. At least you didn't have to go to St. Louis, find a public library, and go through their microfiche for three days. The internet has certainly made things more efficient.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

That's a great set. At least you didn't have to go to St. Louis, find a public library, and go through their microfiche for three days. The internet has certainly made things more efficient.

Shit … thinking this is what I’ll have to do RE: the 1934 Indianapolis Indians Gold Medal Flour clones SGC just turned down,

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Very cool, Lucas!!! Obscure sets are the best. It’s amazing how much detective work it takes to uncover the mysteries of regional sets like these…nice job!!

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Bravo

Thank you both very much!

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

That's a great set. At least you didn't have to go to St. Louis, find a public library, and go through their microfiche for three days. The internet has certainly made things more efficient.

The work people do for public access to digital newspapers is no doubt astounding. The time to scan and archive all of those delicate old papers is one of the largest and most time consuming tasks I've ever imagined. Big thanks to them!

[Leon]

Nice discovery, Lucas. Well done. I love the really rare cards, not ones with a low "pop" number. The ones I like don't have pop numbers!
.

[Beercan collector]

Someone in the hobby Cataloging a set 60 years later kind of neat

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice discovery, Lucas. Well done. I love the really rare cards, not ones with a low "pop" number. The ones I like don't have pop numbers!
.

Thank you Leon, your type collection is one for all to envy.

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Someone in the hobby Cataloging a set 60 years later kind of neat

I Appreciate it!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Nevermind. Answer found in the article depicted!