OT but front page worthy Jordan card ebay

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Enough whining from modern collectors. Put the hanky down and stop crying. I'll put the violin away.

Collect what you like. And don't give a sh*t what others think. Collect humels with little girls twirling umbrellas if that's your thing.

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

Saying modern cards are a sound investment is like saying penny stocks are a good investment. Sure 1 our of every 10,000 turn into a great investment. And the guy who cleans up will make a big stink about it forever. I'll stick with Babe Ruth. You can have Acuna.

This sums it up in a nutshell. While everyone was busy buying Billy Ripken FF cards and then all the 80's 90's complete garbage, I was busy buying vintage. How did I do compared to the minions? You can not give that stuff away. You have to pay to landfill it all. Acuna may be good, but odds are he flames out. Babe ruth we know about. He WAS good!

[pokerplyr80]

If you want to give socialism a shot I hear things are great in Venezuela. You may even track down some rare Topps cards while you're there.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

One way to look at it. The other way of course is how ridiculous is it that folks in this country can't afford to go to the doctor or the dentist and this dude has 350K to drop on a shiny Michael Jordan card from 1997.

No system is perfect, but capitalism is still the best.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If you want to give socialism a shot I hear things are great in Venezuela. You may even track down some rare Topps cards while you're there.

I've bought quite a few cards from there, but despite everything that's going on over there the prices haven't changed.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes, I buy expensive cards. And I'm not knocking anyone who does. But if someone's going to say how great is capitalism that people can spend hundreds of thousands on a baseball card, I'll make the obviously point that if capitalism is so great why is it that some people (who work very hard) can't get by with the bare necessities. Read recently that over 50% of our fellow Americans can't come up with $900 for an emergency.

And that's my last comment on the subject before Leon gives me ring.

You just said it yourself.... YOU buy expensive cards, but now you're going to question others that do, as well as the system that A) Is able to facilitate it, and B) Gives you a voice to be able to complain? Why don't you sell those cards Steve, and contribute the money to some of your fellow Americans that have less? Just don't be a hypocrite, put your money AND your cards where your mouth is.

Originally Posted by rats60

It is called capitalism. People who want to work hard can buy nice things for themselves. Those that are lazy will struggle to survive.

Unfortunately its not quite this simple

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Why don't you sell those cards Steve, and contribute the money to some of your fellow Americans that have less? Just don't be a hypocrite, put your money AND your cards where your mouth is.

Game, set, match.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Unfortunately its not quite this simple

It's astonishing, though, that some people think it is. As though all the people struggling have only themselves to blame.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's astonishing, though, that some people think it is. As though all the people struggling have only themselves to blame.

No not all


WAIT....


NO POLITICS ON THE BOARD!

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

No not all


WAIT....


NO POLITICS ON THE BOARD!

I agree with REPUBLICANinMass. No politics on the board. Wait, what???? Well, regardless of the irony of his screen name, he’s right.

[Republicaninmass]

I see what ya did there!

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by orly57

I agree with REPUBLICANinMass. No politics on the board. Wait, what???? Well, regardless of the irony of his screen name, he’s right.

I would think a Republican in Mass would be kind of a "one of" thing?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

I would think a Republican in Mass would be kind of a "one of" thing?

I hope he is not in Mass or I just sent a lot of pictures of famous dead people to the wrong place.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

I would think a Republican in Mass would be kind of a "one of" thing?

Not at all. Massachusetts has had four Republican governors in the past three decades.

[Throttlesteer]

This thread has played itself out and appears to be going the wrong direction. Perhaps it's time to let it be and move on.

[frankbmd]

My guess is that the Jordan buyer might balk at AOC’s Green New Deal.

And that AOC would also balk at his green new Jordan deal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I figured it was only a matter of time before you worked AOC into one of your posts.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

This thread has played itself out and appears to be going the wrong direction. Perhaps it's time to let it be and move on.

Let’s bring it back this way. There is a Magic/Bird ROOKIE PSA 10 at auction tonight. According to the PSA pop report, there are only 22 gem mint 10 Magic/Bird rookies. The auction estimate is 100k+, and it is currently at 84k with BP. Let’s compare this card to the green Jordan. The green Jordan has a slightly lower population, since only 10 were made. The M/B card was mass-produced, but only 22 10’s exist. This is the ROOKIE card of two of the greatest players of all time...on ONE CARD!!! The third player on the card is Dr.J.
The Green Jordan is an insert card in a set that was released on Jordan’s 12th season. And to top it off, it appears to be altered. So of course, it sells for 3.5X the expected sale price of a gem mint M/B rookie.
This isn’t a judgement on the buyer, or even on modern vs vintage. This is just one of the many reasons why some of us can’t understand the price on the green Jordan. When you compare the sheer importance of one card vs another, it doesn’t appear to be close. I realize that this isn’t completely apples to apples, but it certainly illustrates why so many are shocked about the Jordan.

[swarmee]

If there are 22 PSA 10s of Magic/Bird, and PSA has been grading them for 30 years, you can expect the pop report to increase by 1 almost every year. The other 7 PMG Green Jordans may never show up; only 2 or 3 of them have ever surfaced.
I get that most of the teeth-gnashing is over the fact that vintage collectors don't really understand just how big the modern insert card market is, and how the basketball market specifically is being driven by dot com millionaires all over the world (Japan, Taiwan, Nat Turner, PWCC clientele). Michael Jordan is a worldwide superstar on the Michael Jackson/Elvis level; neither Bird or Magic are.
Nat probably already has his PSA 10 Magic/Bird/Erving in the vault.
#illgetoffyourlawn ;-)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Voice in the wilderness I know, but I think it's madness to pay 100K for a Bird Magic, there are countless thousands around in Mint shape.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If there are 22 PSA 10s of Magic/Bird, and PSA has been grading them for 30 years, you can expect the pop report to increase by 1 almost every year. The other 7 PMG Green Jordans may never show up; only 2 or 3 of them have ever surfaced.
I get that most of the teeth-gnashing is over the fact that vintage collectors don't really understand just how big the modern insert card market is, and how the basketball market specifically is being driven by dot com millionaires all over the world (Japan, Taiwan, Nat Turner, PWCC clientele). Michael Jordan is a worldwide superstar on the Michael Jackson/Elvis level; neither Bird or Magic are.
Nat probably already has his PSA 10 Magic/Bird/Erving in the vault.
#illgetoffyourlawn ;-)

I thought I was pretty clear about the fact that this isn’t a modern v vintage thing. In fact, I don’t think of 1980 Topps as vintage. Im pointing out the importance of the rookie card of two top-5 greats versus an insert.
Your point about the 7 other Jordans being unaccounted-for is huge. That was never mentioned on here before. Those may be lost forever. I disagree with you that a new m/b 10 will pop up a year. That issue is EXTREMELY tough to find in a 10.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thought I saw something on Blowout where someone and maybe it was the buyer of the AUTH said he knew where 5 of the Jordans were.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Voice in the wilderness I know, but I think it's madness to pay 100K for a Bird Magic, there are countless thousands around in Mint shape.

I don’t disagree.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Old 11-25-2018, 10:18 PM #8
natsturner
Member


Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 160
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by eWax View Post
FYI- I still believe there a few more green Jordan PMG's in those boxes. I never have believed the story about the person overseas owning 7-8 of them.

Yeah, I know of five of them for sure that are in collector's hands
natsturner is online now

[darwinbulldog]

Magic and Bird were great, but they weren't 2 of the top 5.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Magic and Bird were great, but they weren't 2 of the top 5.

Magic is for sure.
Bird, somewhere 7-10 IMO.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by orly57

Your point about the 7 other Jordans being unaccounted-for is huge. That was never mentioned on here before. Those may be lost forever. I disagree with you that a new m/b 10 will pop up a year. That issue is EXTREMELY tough to find in a 10.

Well, with VintageBreaks cracking packs every week and people with 9s reviewing them annually, I wouldn't be shocked at all if we average a new 10 per year.
Surely the big buyers are tracking which ones exist. I am doing research now and will update:
001 - pulled by a guy who bought a few boxes off eBay in 2015.
002
003 - claimed to be seen here: http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/view...578&highlight=
004
005
006 - PSA Auth bought by Nat Turner for $350,000
007
008 - This one is claimed to be 008: http://truepowermartialarts.com/just...3%20Green.html
009
010

001 article

pictures of 001 and 006

There is another picture of a rainbow (base, red, and green all together) from before 2015. It could be 006, or it could be a different number, or it could theoretically be a fake.


When is the Mascot Dog Food Mantle going to resurface. If I had $50K in the bank last year, I would have bought that one to hold. Not sending that through PWCC did the owner a disservice, unless by choosing his own family's auctionhouse, he feels it was worth the additional advertising gained.

Edit: Haven't found any more, but will update if/when I hear of them. Sometimes this kind of stuff is treated as trade secrets, because it can influence prices of ones that do come to market. There are reported sales of them back when they first came out, but those may be lost to overzealous moms or ruined by attics.

[Peter_Spaeth]

John, it probably depends on whether PSA wants to grade more or not. Surely they have the pops in mind and aren't grading in a vacuum, IMO.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by orly57

I thought I was pretty clear about the fact that this isn’t a modern v vintage thing. In fact, I don’t think of 1980 Topps as vintage. Im pointing out the importance of the rookie card of two top-5 greats versus an insert.
Your point about the 7 other Jordans being unaccounted-for is huge. That was never mentioned on here before. Those may be lost forever. I disagree with you that a new m/b 10 will pop up a year. That issue is EXTREMELY tough to find in a 10.

Lost forever? More likely in unopened packs!!

[swarmee]

What percent of the print run of Skybox Precious Metals do you think is still unopened after 22 years? 5%? So 0.5 Jordan greens still in packs?
One of these Jordan PMG greens sold for like $10K back when they were new. People ripped packs with chase cards, and the print run wasn't in the billions like Donruss and Topps baseball from the mid-80s.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Lost forever? More likely in unopened packs!!

I suppose there is a small chance 1 or 2 got tossed with a box of junk era cards. Or burned in a fire. But I wouldn't be surprised if all 10 are either in collections, unopened packs, or sitting in boxes with other 90s cards waiting to be rediscovered.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Well, with VintageBreaks cracking packs every week and people with 9s reviewing them annually, I wouldn't be shocked at all if we average a new 10 per year.
Surely the big buyers are tracking which ones exist. I am doing research now and will update:
001 - pulled by a guy who bought a few boxes off eBay in 2015.
002
003 - claimed to be seen here: http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/view...578&highlight=
004
005
006 - PSA Auth bought by Nat Turner for $350,000
007
008 - This one is claimed to be 008: http://truepowermartialarts.com/just...3%20Green.html
009
010

001 article

pictures of 001 and 006

There is another picture of a rainbow (base, red, and green all together) from before 2015. It could be 006, or it could be a different number, or it could theoretically be a fake.


When is the Mascot Dog Food Mantle going to resurface. If I had $50K in the bank last year, I would have bought that one to hold. Not sending that through PWCC did the owner a disservice, unless by choosing his own family's auctionhouse, he feels it was worth the additional advertising gained.

Edit: Haven't found any more, but will update if/when I hear of them. Sometimes this kind of stuff is treated as trade secrets, because it can influence prices of ones that do come to market. There are reported sales of them back when they first came out, but those may be lost to overzealous moms or ruined by attics.

So it appears 4 of the 10 Jordan greens have been found. If/when the other 6 are discovered, how much do you think this will affect the price of the current 4 discovered?

[swarmee]

It may not affect the price much at all. Market demand is much higher than possible supply. If 3 come to market this year maybe. If they come out every five years, it gives a bunch of new collectors the chance to dream about it, earn their millions, and place a bid next time.

[t206fanatic]

An underdiscussed part of this is there’s a fella out there who bid $349k or whatever for the Jordan and didn’t get it.

I feel terrible for that guy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

An underdiscussed part of this is there’s a fella out there who bid $349k or whatever for the Jordan and didn’t get it.

I feel terrible for that guy.

If you want a card you gotta man up.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

An underdiscussed part of this is there’s a fella out there who bid $349k or whatever for the Jordan and didn’t get it.

I feel terrible for that guy.

Please explain how someone didn't get a card, was that the high bid?

I honestly only read this thread for the humor.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Please explain how someone didn't get a card, was that the high bid?

I honestly only read this thread for the humor.

The underbidders never get the card unfortunately. I've been there myself once or twice. Winning bid was just over 350k.

[Throttlesteer]

I hope there's more to that set. Boxes go for well over $2k

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

One way to look at it. The other way of course is how ridiculous is it that folks in this country can't afford to go to the doctor or the dentist and this dude has 350K to drop on a shiny Michael Jordan card from 1997.

This guy went out and kicked ass in life. On a bell curve he is an outlier and should be proud of his accomplishments.

I don't think anyone can honestly say they wouldn't love to have FU money and be able to sit with their phone in hand and launch a snipe that says I am winning this card bitch.

[ejharrington]

My problem with modern cards, which for me is 1988 forward, is that I like to collect players to completion and that is impossible now since they make so many of them. I love Ichiro and was thinking of collecting his cards until I saw there were over 10000 cards of him. The modern cards are great looking and innovative but I’m glad I collected before they started making so many of them.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

This guy went out and kicked ass in life. On a bell curve he is an outlier and should be proud of his accomplishments.

I don't think anyone can honestly say they wouldn't love to have FU money and be able to sit with their phone in hand and launch a snipe that says I am winning this card bitch.

+1

Couldn't agree more.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

My guess is that the Jordan buyer might balk at AOC’s Green New Deal.

And that AOC would also balk at his green new Jordan deal.

Looking through my postcard collection, I see she's got a team back in NY.

[Jdoggs]

Wow Brady championships contenders bgs 9 sold for $401k. Even greater than the Jordan.

[Throttlesteer]

At the very least, it WAS a rookie and autographed.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

Wow Brady championships contenders bgs 9 sold for $401k. Even greater than the Jordan.

Good grief, you could get a '52 Mantle PSA 8 for that.

[Dpeck100]

The one thing that modern cards have that can't be replicated is you own shares of stock in a current company. Ebay is like the stock exchange and Tom Brady is as blue chip as one can get with some internet stock in him.

Love him or hate him he is the man. Not even remotely debatable. As an owner you get to participate in his wins monetarily so that attracts a lot of people. You almost own a piece of him like when Secretariat was sold in shares to investors.

I couldn't begin to tell you if 400k is ridiculous or turns out to be cheap. So many of these cards have gone so much higher than I or probably anyone could have imagined so I don't even feel qualified to try and forecast their future.

On one hand the print runs are so low that you don't need that many serious buyers to have the prices sky rocket. Keeping them there is obviously easier with the low supply but the price that collectors are willing to pay on cards is quite variable and these also could turn into one off sales. Time will tell.

What they do have going for them is in many cases once an item develops this kind of marquee status unless there is a serious event that should change the psychology of the market it will be a bragging rights piece and that generally only gets more expensive over time.

This is going to be very fascinating to watch play out in the coming months and years and obviously the hidden supply will play a great role in determining where prices go.

At least it is Michael Jordan and Tom Brady we are talking about. It doesn't get any better than those two.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My sense is that at the very high end, for cards like these, it's the internet/social media equivalent of a pissing context among guys with huge amounts of disposable income. And it only takes two guys who want to win the pissing contest to drive the price to numbers that look nuts to the rest of us. I'm not sure these guys see these purchases as investments per se. I think a lot of it is ego gratification. Just speculating.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Seeing these cards go for the prices they're going for makes me wonder how much packs and hobby boxes were going for when those releases first came out.

[rjackson44]

Agree with Peter 😎

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My sense is that at the very high end, for cards like these, it's the internet/social media equivalent of a pissing context among guys with huge amounts of disposable income. And it only takes two guys who want to win the pissing contest to drive the price to numbers that look nuts to the rest of us. I'm not sure these guys see these purchases as investments per se. I think a lot of it is ego gratification. Just speculating.

So I must conclude that neither bidder has prostate issues.