R E Question

[shelly]

I am posting an autograph from RE auction it is certed by JSA. I just would like your opinions.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...emid=25513#pic

[David Atkatz]

What's your problem with it? Did the photog live in Michigan?

It looks good, or, to use your own language,

.

[collectbaseball]

I mentioned the whole lot of them in the other REA thread.

You know what they say about things that seem too good to be true...

[David Atkatz]

Signed pictures of Ruth "too good to be true"?

Can you count to, oh, about a billion?

[collectbaseball]

When was the last time you saw six essentially perfect signed Babe Ruth photos that were uninscribed?

[David Atkatz]

And if a forger were good enough to do these, do you think he'd be stupid enough to submit six at once?

[collectbaseball]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

And if a forger were good enough to do these, do you think he'd be stupid enough to submit six at once?

Yes, especially if he can get them certed. Your question implies that you don't believe a forger could be good enough to do these; is that right?

You aren't the slightest bit skeptical when eleven signed photos of the biggest names show up out of nowhere? And they are all perfect, and not a single one of those players wrote "To John," or "Best wishes," or "Sincerely," or "4/17/48," or anything of the like? Have you ever seen an autograph you didn't like?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by shelly

I am posting an autograph from RE auction it is certed by JSA. I just would like your opinions.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...emid=25513#pic

JSA saw it in hand. PSA has not. Perhaps they would render a final decision if they had it in hand.

[David Atkatz]

Who gives a sh*t? Some PSA employee tasked with looking at a computer screen won't render an opinion on a 72-dpi partial scan. (And we don't know whether he's "unable to render an opinion" due to the autograph, or the politics.)

Make up your own mind. Thinking of buying? Ask SCD for high-res scans.

[jetsticks]

I am the person who submitted the photos to REA. I can assure any and all that they are as authentic as you can get. I am not a specialist in signatures but I have done a lot of research on REA and JSA and they are the absolute tops when it comes to verifying and authenticating memorabilia. I have talked to my mother (whom I got the photos from) and she remembers the photographer giving her a box full of his photos from when he was an apprentice to when he was a full fledge photographer. Some where given to him as payment and some he took himself. He, however, had all the signatures himself. Whether or not the photos are from the 1900's or the 1040's, the signatures are legit.

[jetsticks]

I also want to say that REA went to a lot of trouble and expense to get these autograph's authenticated. They too were exercising caution, but after they had the signatures authenticated by professionals, only then did they agree to take my photos on consignment.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by jetsticks

I am the person who submitted the photos to REA. I can assure any and all that they are as authentic as you can get. I am not a specialist in signatures but I have done a lot of research on REA and JSA and they are the absolute tops when it comes to verifying and authenticating memorabilia. I have talked to my mother (whom I got the photos from) and she remembers the photographer giving her a box full of his photos from when he was an apprentice to when he was a full fledge photographer. Some where given to him as payment and some he took himself. He, however, had all the signatures himself. Whether or not the photos are from the 1900's or the 1040's, the signatures are legit.

what kind of research did you do on jsa and what did you find to consider them "tops"?

[bufordraley]

My opinion is that I have had dealings with REA and JSA in the past and they are as honest and legit as they come. If they say the autographs are real....then they are real! Take it from someone who has spent thousands of $$$ on memorabilia.

[jetsticks]

My brother in law ran a memorabilia shop for years and used them for authenticating their merchandise. I held on to these photos until I thought the time was right to auction them off. Before doing that I contacted maybe 10 auction sites and visited a few more and REA was the only one who didn't want to just snatch up the photos without first authenticating them. They promised me nothing in return except a fair auction.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by bufordraley

My opinion is that I have had dealings with REA and JSA in the past and they are as honest and legit as they come. If they say the autographs are real....then they are real! Take it from someone who has spent thousands of $$$ on memorabilia.

Don't be so naive. Jimmie may be honest, but he is human. He has made many well-documented mistakes.

I suppose we can say this: "If Jimmie say's it's real, he believes it is real."

[bufordraley]

Simple solution: Have them re-authenticated by another firm. If they say they are real then the value will be even more!

[travrosty]

when jsa authenticated an old boxing signature from the late 19th century without any exemplars to go by, but still issued the cert stating that the signature compares to other exemplars they have seen, then is that being honest and legit? the item got pulled from auction when no exemplars could be found but psa and jsa had both issued certs!

when they authenticate a luis firpo boxing autograph that looks nothing like any the boxing hobby has ever seen in 50 years of cataloguing his signature, what is that? It was pulled from the auction in disgrace? Or how about the john l sullivan signed in fancy script when real john l sullivan handwriting is sloppy and almost illegible. he was asked about it and he said he had exemplars to match the fancy john l sullivan signature, but no he couldnt show them to anyone!!!

how did you vet spence other than a brother used him to authenticate? did you check into him at all. look at his skills and track record?

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by bufordraley

My opinion is that I have had dealings with REA and JSA in the past and they are as honest and legit as they come. If they say the autographs are real....then they are real! Take it from someone who has spent thousands of $$$ on memorabilia.

So you spent thousands of $$$ on a COA? Makes sense to me.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

So you spent thousands of $$$ on a COA? Makes sense to me.

+1

[bufordraley]

I am a collector of memorabilia and I have spent thousands of dollars on such items. Before I buy anything, I make sure it is authenticated.

[HRBAKER]

This is a perfect example of how the market place has evolved with TPG, what is really meant is if they say it's real - the marketplace accepts and treats it as real (making it liquid).

[Paulanthony]

Originally Posted by bufordraley

I am a collector of memorabilia and I have spent thousands of dollars on such items. Before I buy anything, I make sure it is authenticated.

Yikes.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by bufordraley

I am a collector of memorabilia and I have spent thousands of dollars on such items. Before I buy anything, I make sure it is authenticated.

by whom? just authenticated, by uncle frank or grandpa bob?

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

This is a perfect example of how the market place has evolved with TPG, what is really meant is if they say it's real - the marketplace accepts and treats it as real (making it liquid).

+1

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by BigJJ

Rob did the right thing.

Whatever the additional information Rob asked for, and perhaps wanted to make public, was the correct way to go to resolve this firmly one way or the other.

If the autographs and backstory are real, why on earth would you not provide all the info in the world, to prevent the items from being withdrawn from a major auction?

Does the owner think everyone will forget? Or that each auction house has a totally different set of buyers? And that other houses will want to touch what was withdrawn from REA?

Even if someone is concerned about chain of title issues, deathbed gifts, etc., the only way to make certain you lose a good amount, or all, your value is to withdraw items from an auction.

To lose value (by withdrawing) because you are concerned that you may lose value (via legal claim) is really dumb.

The question is, is the owner's backstory true and he is foolish, or is the owner's backstory not true.

JJ,
The photos were certified by JSA...it had the same clout that the Babe Ruth ticket did...The Consignor could have left the items in the auction and they would have sold for a pretty penny. REA would have left them in if the Consignor would not have requested to pull them.

The only thing that was a "good thing" that was done was that they contacted the Consignor for more provenance at the urge of someone here, but they didn't pull the items. Only After the Consignor told them to pull the items, did they pull them.

The Consignor of the Gary Cooper photo has not requested it be pulled, which is the only reason it's still up.

If they are doing the right thing, then why is that Cooper photo still up?

[BigJJ]

Jim,

Fair question. I do not know the particulars.

My Rabbi once gave a sermon, and I am not outwardly religious, I go to Temple about three times a year, but he gave a sermon that I always keep in mind. He said that humanity's difficult position stems from our outcast from the Garden of Eden. That as a result of our being placed in an imperfect world, that no matter how hard we try to make everything right and perfect, we cannot. Now obviously the existence of an actual Garden of Eden is up for debate. But the idea that it is impossible to act perfectly in an imperfect world is interesting. Man cannot create a Garden of Eden, cannot create a perfect result. And therefore, what distinguishes good from bad, is intent, as we only have full control over intent and not result.

[BigJJ]

J, I re-read the statement. Based on the statement, it appears that REA would not have left them in without the consignor agreeing to make available additional information. REA was not allowing these items to continue, without additional information provided, or made available to the public. As a result, the consignor withdrew them. That is my read of the statement.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by BigJJ

J, I re-read the statement. Based on the statement, it appears that REA would not have left them in without the consignor agreeing to make available additional information. REA was not allowing these items to continue, without additional information provided, or made available to the public. As a result, the consignor withdrew them. That is my read of the statement.

I understand that everyone will read things a little different I guess I don't get the same translation out of the statement:

This lot has been withdrawn at the request of our consignor due to REA’s efforts to provide additional information regarding provenance being excessive (which they may have been). We are honoring the consignor’s request and apologize for any inconvenience to the consignor and to bidders.

The items are gone and until they appear again, it's a moot point. So until REA comes on, I guess we will never really know what happened.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

I understand that everyone will read things a little different I guess I don't get the same translation out of the statement:

This lot has been withdrawn at the request of our consignor due to REA’s efforts to provide additional information regarding provenance being excessive (which they may have been). We are honoring the consignor’s request and apologize for any inconvenience to the consignor and to bidders.

The items are gone and until they appear again, it's a moot point. So until REA comes on, I guess we will never really know what happened.

It is worded unclearly, but I think the translation would be:
This lot has been withdrawn at the request of our consignor because the consignor felt REA’s efforts to obtain additional information regarding provenance were excessive. We are honoring the consignor’s request and apologize for any inconvenience to the consignor and to bidders.

I'll stand corrected if my interpretation is inaccurate.

[jetsticks]

Bigjj,

Not true at all. REA would have left my photos in the auction if I did not request them to be withdrawn. I did not have them withdrawn because of the authenticity issue but more of a personal issue that Rob and I had. That is all. I could have left them up there and they still would have sold for a fair amount but I did not like the way things transpired with Rob and had him pull them. Again, it has nothing to do with him trying to get more information, but rather the way he was trying to acquire it which I felt betrayed myself and my family.

[BigJJ]

Originally Posted by jetsticks

Bigjj,

Not true at all. REA would have left my photos in the auction if I did not request them to be withdrawn. I did not have them withdrawn because of the authenticity issue but more of a personal issue that Rob and I had. That is all. I could have left them up there and they still would have sold for a fair amount but I did not like the way things transpired with Rob and had him pull them. Again, it has nothing to do with him trying to get more information, but rather the way he was trying to acquire it which I felt betrayed myself and my family.

How were the items acquired? Were they a deathbed gift? Is there a concern about chain of title?

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Scott, I hate to say this, and please take this the right way, but back away from the coffee!

Reading through this, I think you may have misinterpreted some posts and jumped the track. James seems to be neither defending nor condemning REA, just 'reporting' on an item relevant to several threads here. I have never felt that James was another Travis or Bubblebathgirl. He seems normal.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming....

Thanks Jim! I really felt like I was beginning to go crazy...just because I live in the same state as the Consignor doesn't mean I'm "shilling" for anyone...there are just a FEW people in the state of Indiana...

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Runscott

No offense taken. I reach a critical point every now and then, and when that happens I quit walking on eggshells;in fact, I find them and stomp them . I got bent out of shape when he posted the Rosemary's photo album, and then he complained that we weren't responding the way he wanted me to. I honestly wish I had ignored his thread altogether. But I've learned.

Some people don't realize that this isn't their Facebook page - it's a freakin discussion forum. It must really be frustrating to such people to not have the Facebook option of simply deleting unwanted responses.

Okay, I'll take your advice and avoid caffeine for a few hours. I do drink a lot of it.

Hey Scott,

I'm not even on Facebook...not really a fan of that format...also, I never had a problem with he way you responded, just that you're a dick every time you open your mouth....and you don't know me so shut your mouth, if you have something to say, then say it to me. Quit hiding behind your keyboard and "ignore" button....

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Well, you do seem to be in the coffee shop a lot....

And I figured there had to be some back story, 'cause I wasn't seeing it here.

His backstory was that he was pissed because I posted a "feel good" story and he tried to turn it into another pissing contest thread...

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by mr2686

I'm guessing then that this isn't the feel good thread?

According to Scott there's a feel good thread titled "Rosemary's Baby"...I recommend it...😀

[shelly]

Richard, appreciated but not needed.
I said I dont like the photos my opinion. I never said they where fake. I only said that the reason they where taken down where two fold. One REA contacted his mother. I also said the other reason was that one story from the consigner did not jive with the mothers version. I have proof of that if the consigner wants me to post it. There are people that have no idea what is going but yet they jump at the chance to go after me. I have learned one thing before you say anything make sure you have and idea what you are talking about a rule that one certain peice of garbage should have learned by now. I asked a simple questionl If Spence authenticated them why do you need anyone else. He is God on this site.
You said I acused you of going on the HOF site. Did you go on the site?
You said I was the one who spread rumors because I was bidding on those items and they went to high. I started this thread long before you came on.
You can ask your friend if it is ok for me to show the emails that are not from net 54 to show what I am saying is fact.
Just to make one thing clear did I ever acuse you of selling anything that was fake.

[HRBAKER]

Shelly,
Just for clarity, if you say you "don't like" an autograph - do you not think that most people interpret that to mean you doubt it's authenticity?

[shelly]

Like everything else it is only an opinon. I never said they where fake I said I dont like them. I have looked at a lot of autographs on here. I have said no when there good and said yes where they are bad. If Jimmey say they are good why would you need someone else to authenticate them? I will ask you the question if Jimmy an autograph in his opinion is real. Does that make it real?

[HRBAKER]

That's not really the question I asked but thanks for the response.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by shelly

Like everything else it is only an opinon. I never said they where fake I said I dont like them. I have looked at a lot of autographs on here. I have said no when there good and said yes where they are bad. If Jimmey say they are good why would you need someone else to authenticate them? I will ask you the question if Jimmy an autograph in his opinion is real. Does that make it real?

To quote George C. Scott in "Dr. Strangelove, "What a load of Commie bull." You don't like the autographs. You keep giving the consignor the third degree. You have--by your actions--as much as accused him of lying. But you keep falling back on the old "I never said the autographs are bad."

What kind of coward are you?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Shelly,
Just for clarity, if you say you "don't like" an autograph - do you not think that most people interpret that to mean you doubt it's authenticity?

Jeff, in fairness to Shelly - autograph-collecting is a hobby where people will buy any Babe Ruth autographed item that has a PSA or JSA LOA. It doesn't matter it the autograph is authentic or not, and in most cases we'll never know with 100% certainly. So a 90%'er gets a lot more $$$ than a 50%'er, but the 50%'er still gets $1,000's. If an autograph is a 50%'er, I also "don't like" it. Doesn't mean I'm saying it's a fake - but yes, it does mean I have some doubt as to it's authenticity - 50% to be exact.

Calmed down and heading out for more caffeine, so at Deertick's suggestion, I won't be back until the next few cups wear off

I love you guys.

[shelly]

Jeff, I dont know what you want me to say. I did not like those autographs. It does not mean that they are not real. It is only an opinion. You didn't answer what I asked. Why if Spence already authenticated them as authentic would you go anywhere else? You have the best and your going to take a chance that someone else might in fact turn them down and loose everything.

[jgmp123]

I have suggested to the consignor here, through email, and over at HOS, that Richard Simon is who I would recommend sending them to.