Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hey Charlie- that's a first! We haven't had good luck getting packages from Brooklyn to Washington, glad we finally got it right.

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Posted By: leon

You are grasping...my lawyer friend. Not only can you not show me where someone has been arrested you CAN'T SHOW ME ANYTHING proving anything was done wrong....For the 100th time I don't know if anything was or wasn't... but neither do you...but please keep arguing (am I really trying to argue with a prominent lawyer?) take care...and definitely nothing personal here. I consider you a friend.....

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Posted By: jay behrens

Leon has made claims about the way that he would run this board. I've tried to hold him to those claims. He said when he first took over that there would be no advertising on the board. We see what happened with that claim. When started taking money for ads, he claimed that there would be no undue influence or protection of advertisers, yet we see him continually protect/defend Mastro.

If I were in Leon's position and acted the way he has, I would expect people to be calling me out for not following thru on my word.

The comment about the other board hurt. I think I'll go to my bedroom and cry. At least over there, if see any of the moderators being a defender/protector/apologist for Mastro or any other dealer/auction house you know there is no chance for monetary incentive behind our position since we will NEVER accept advertising.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

Well Jay, I guess I'm just voicing my opinion like you do. I wish you well.

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Posted By: MikeU

"The last paragraph notes that one of the Mastro brothers was Rudi Guilianis' deputy mayoy....does Rudi collect cards....I smell a scandal I mean come on this is closer to a scandal then Libby's recollection?"

Since Republicans are involved, you can be rest assured that if anything non-Kosher is involved, it is for the good of the country and nothing else. Anyone who believes otherwise hates America.

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Posted By: jay behrens

As long as the rich keep getting richer and the middle class is destroyed, it's all good. sarcasm off

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, I suppose the author of the article hates Mastro so much that he invented the current FBI investigation? I suppose he's so impartial that he allowed Doug Allen the chance to be heard in the article? He's not spinning in the article, Leon; he's just reporting facts -- the fact that Mastro is presently, and still, being investigated by the FBI for fraud.

Would you go to a cancer doctor who was being investigated by the FBI for providing sugar pills in place of chemotherapy? Or would you go to him for treatment and shrug off the investigation and say "show me the meat baby!"? Not to suggest that selling cards is the same as cancer, but I'm sure you get my point.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Your cancer doctor analogy illustrates my point, if you think foul play is involved, don't bid.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I stand corrected, I am correct. Now Leon, the article is posted let people make the decisions for themselves. You and my brother both look like fools beating the same issue to death. I can not believe that you did not trust the people that said the article existed and that they had there own aggenda. You do a nice job with the board but we all have are flaws and beliefs (which not everyone will agree with) and we need to be our own person.

By the way the other board is just fine you don't see off topic and quarrels going on over there. There is a group of over protective individuals on this board and that is why all the bickering happens.

Barry, thanks for being reasonable in this whole thread.

As far as lumping me with my brother, read my posts ( alot fewer) and read his posts you will find that although we agree on some things we don't always agree and I am more rational.

All have a great day,

Lee

disclaimer: If this was posted last year at this date it is just a repeat and sorry for wasting your time.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

I see no evidence of bias on Leon's part. The man is entitled to his opinion and I don't think it is fair to assume it is the result of bias, particularly where he has criticized other advertisers in the past.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Jeff pays to get the Daily News delivered to his home, and we're supposed to trust his judgment?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, my point is that I don't know whether or not Mastro is engaged in fraud. How could I at this stage? The point is that the continued investigation of Mastro for fraud does give me (and any rational person) some pause.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

David, fair point. I have no good defense to that charge.

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Posted By: leon

I would be more prone to making a decision based on the findings of the allegations. I guess we can disagree on this issue..I am in business...You know how many times I have been called with allegations of something I did wrong and was responsible for, through actions of employees? Many. You know how many have proven out so far? 0 (knock on wood)..

on a side note.....I did have an employee say they fell in one of my restaurant freezers. They got a lawyer, I got a lawyer. I told their quack in the box doctor I would pay until the coming Friday for her treatments. Guess what, miraculously on Friday I had an MD signed release for her to go back to work........again, we just think differently on this. Allegations and investigations are part of business. I am for less legal matters .....take care

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Posted By: Fred C

The interesting thing (in this article) is that someone said that they provided a name of a consignor that bid on their own item. Is it illegal to bid on your own items? I don't think it's ethical but is it illegal? I've had a consignor tell me he bid on his own items in a major auction. Truth be told it disturbed me and from then on if I knew he was the consignor in an auction I would avoid the items. After that I was a little suspect about that particular auction house (who I will not name). I still bid in that auction houses auctions (not as much as in the past) because they do have good material. But it still bothers me knowing what I know about the consignor bidding on their own stuff.

Some may say it shouldn't matter because they have to pay the premium if they win the auction but that's not the point. To me this has everything to do with ethics. If someone wants to sell something for a certain price then JUST SELL THE THING without playing these stupid games. Bottom line is that they could sell it for 15% - 20% less and still get the amount of money they wanted for the item.

Even if there were laws about consignors bidding on their own material there are ways to circumvent the system such as having a buddy bid on the material. Same game, different plan, same stupid MFing a$$hole manipulating the system.

If any auction house allows this then their ethics should be questioned, but then again there's the buddy system.

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Posted By: peter chao

As an attorney, I look for the problems the FBI will have in gathering evidence. Somebody should tell the FBI that it will be near impossible for them to make their case.

The easy way would be for somebody to squeal. In other words, somebody who works at Mastro will testify that consignors were told they could bid.

Without this direct evidence it will be much more slippery. We are talking about obtaining records of past auctions. The problem will be these records may no longer exist. It may be easy to obtain a list of winners of past auctions.

However, we are talking about the shills, normally, the people shilling don't win the auctions. How is the FBI going to get a list of those that were second or third in the bidding. Also, you need to link the shills with Mastro. Neither parties have an interest in speaking with the FBI. So where is the beef?

Peter

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Jeff, fair enough, but you also in the past have expressed concerns about Doug's acknowledged policies as to what they may do to "prepare" cards and the bottom line was that they weren't going to disclose that. So at some point it seems to me one has to make the tough decision either to stop bidding with someone you don't trust/whose policies you don't like or to bid with your eyes wide open.

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Posted By: barrysloate

How do you know that Jeff doesn't get the Daily News because he likes to do the Jumble?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Peter, you see no bias? He takes advertising money from them, has stated the his collection will be consigned to Mastro if he quits or dies, and has a personal relationship with Doug Allen.

Nope, no potential for any personal bias there at all.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I remember when a woman tripped over her New York Times, injuring herself. She sued the Times for publishing newspapers that were too big. I always thought the Times should have used that suit in advertising.

Though I find it hard to trust a newspaper that doesn't have a comics section.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

WE CAN'T HELP OUR ADDICTIONS!!!!!!!!

That's why these auction houses are getting away with doing this kind of BS. We see a card and we want it. It's that simple. We fear we may never see that card again so we must have it. Jeff blasts away at Mastro (Rightfully so) but he still bids in every auction. I may be wrong, but I thought I read that Leon bid in Verkman's last auction. I even signed up for Leland's auctions after I said I would never do business with them after the Clemente airplane auction - although it was to bid in one of Scott Gaynor's auctions. I suppose if the next Mastro auction has a Nebraska Indians item that I NEED then I will bid on it.

WE CAN'T HELP IT!!!!

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Jay, there is a difference between a potential conflict of interest and actual bias. Obviously there are circumstances in life (e.g. being a judge) where one has to avoid even the former, so as not to create an appearance of impropriety. But on a baseball card chatboard I don't worry about such things. Indeed, even if I thought Leon was biased, which I don't, I would just discount what he had to say. I truly don't see why it bothers you so much.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Dan you nailed it. I think most of us would buy a difficult card we needed/wanted even if someone told us they had trimmed it.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan B is 100 percent correct.

Peter C, if you are a practicing criminal attorney who has tried cases against the federal government and has cross-examined FBI agents I will eat my hat. Virtually every single word in your post is incorrect. It is almost uncanny how wrong you are.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Peter, why does it bother me? Call it personal integrity, or lack of it. It bothers me when people don't honor their word. I guess it doesn't bother you.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

How did Leon not honor his word? By accepting advertisers in the first place?

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Posted By: peter chao

Doug Allen, are you lurking? Right now is the easy part, prior to the indictment all your doing is holding the client's hand.

Heck I would tear the FBI's case apart. I would ask the bidders whether anybody forced them to make their bids. Were they prepared to go higher than their winning bid?

I would ask them about the present market value of the items that they won at auction.

Peter

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Posted By: Joe D.

looks pretty clear...
this is current news.


thanks for the heads up.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Peter C., you misconstrue the issue. I could place a top all and win the auction, yet pay more than I "should" have because the underbidder was not legitimate. So I don't understand the relevance of what you are saying. In the above example it is irrelevant thatI placed my bid voluntarily or was prepared to go higher.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Peter C, how do you know what the present market value is for an item if it was shilled everytime it came up for sale?

edited to make clear I was talking to Peter C.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Peter, that, among other things that Leon has done.



I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jay,

Is it possible that you are confusing, Honor, Integrity etc with you personal ideology? I think if you asked every person on the board for their opinion regarding Leon's integrity your opinion might be in the minority. I know you are comfortable with being a contraian but it does not make you correct. Is it possible you are attracted to Leon and this is your way of showing it?

Charlie

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter C, your 'defense' above is not a defense to a charge of fraud. You'd find that any judge on planet earth would stop that "defense."

Are you really a criminal lawyer or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I dig old, bald guys with glasses Besides, I think Leon and Scott B have an exclusive relationship :-p

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jeff,

Are you laughing as you type that or does it take a few minutes to kick in! I know I was.

Charlie

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Charlie, I'm not sure that the tears running down my face are ones of laughter or pain.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Planet earth may not be the only forum with jurisdiction over the case.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"Doug Allen, are you lurking? Right now is the easy part, prior to the indictment all your doing is holding the client's hand."

I just can't let this go it is so insipidly wrong. Peter, is this what you think criminal lawyers do with their clients during the investigation phase of a case? Or do you think they do anything they can to convince the prosecutorial body investigating their client that no crime has been committed? Randy Mastro is a good lawyer. Trust me, he is not just holding hands now.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Guys,

They need to start standardizing the curriculum at Law schools around the country?

Charlie

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I'm not a lawyer, but my dad watches Judge Judy and keeps me up to date on her rulings. I consider myself well versed in such important cases as "Defendant borrows plaintiff's boom box, returns it damaged" and "Eleven year old gets sick on classmate, damaging Black Sabbath shirt."

I remember the Judge Wapner case where a woman sued a man because he was too cheap on their date. He used coupons and they took the bus.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Judge Judy: If you're the defendent you're going to lose - unless the plaintiff can't keep his/her mouth shut.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jim,

I am only going to ask you this question once..... did you ever have sexual relations with that woman....Ms. Coulter?

Charlie

Edited to add: All joking aside, I hope Jim was and is being facetious with his admiration for Ms. Coulter. Her rhetoric is indefensible by any politcal slant.

Although, I do agree with Dan Kravitz...there is something kinda hot about her.

CB

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Posted By: jay behrens

can you define sex? If you mean did I put that baseball card there, I don't consider that sex.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: David Smith

Jay,

If you DID put a baseball card in there, then it TRULY would be trimmed!!!




David

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Posted By: David Smith

On a serious note, I have never bid on or consigned anything with Mastro but their auctions always gave me some pause as far as the write-ups for some of the lots were concerned.

I am of the belief that if something is hyped TOO much then something is fishy. The Shakespeare phrase, "Me thinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind. Why does an ultra rare or expensive item have to have sooooo much hype?? If Mastro were selling the PSA 8 Wagner (no comments about whether it is trimmed or not) I am sure it would be a centerfold with two pages of hype. WHY????

Instead of the hype, why not just put a LARGE photo of the card on one page and on the next page just say, "The best there is". If anything else needed to be said, then it could be followed up with a history of ownership and prices paid for the card over the years. If an item is extraordinary, most people reading the catalogue will know it, especially if it is a centerpiece item and/or very high priced.

Most everybody knows Babe Ruth, even the average man on the street has probably heard of him. These same people would also know that a bat that he used in a game is valuable. How valuable, they probably wouldn't know. But they would know something about it. A long and drawn out description in a sports auction catalogue with fancy and/or seldom used words is not necessary because the target audience IS NOT the average man on the street.
Now if it were a game used Babe Roof bat and the opening bid was high, then a long drawn out description with fancy words MIGHT be necessary.

I am not a lawyer but I also use this system when I see defendents (or their attorneys) talking on TV. If they yammer on and on for no reason then I think they are trying to hide something or shift the focus somewhere else. I don't think that if they just come on and say, "I am not guilty" and nothing else. Kind of simple and naieve (sp?) but at least it is a start.

David

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Posted By: JimB

I have not read all of this thread because, frankly, it bores me. But I have a question:

Why can't Leon post his opinion like anybody else on here? If his views are supportive of an advertiser, so be it. Who cares. If he starts deleting controversial posts or deleting views stated against advertisers, then there is a problem.
JimB

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Posted By: JimB

And that article has virtually nothing of substance against Mastro. People have bid on their consigned lots? I garuntee you they have done so in every auction house, including those with Honest Auto-Bid. They just do it via a friend in those cases.

If somebody consigns a lot that they think is worth 20k and there is a minute left in the auction and it is still at 5k, if they would rather keep it at that price and are willing to swallow the BP and buy the lot for 5.5k, who could blame them, especially when Mastro starts all bidding at about 5-10% of expected value and does not allow for reserves?
JimB

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Leon's opinion was fair. He was essentially saying it was old news, and reposting old news once every three months doesn't make it new news.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim and David, frankly the only thing new about the article is that the FBI investigation into Mastro for fraud continues to this day. To me, that is news.

And I'm not sure that buying back one's own consigned card is considered shill bidding. Shill bidding exists instead where someone else buys a consigned card that has been artificially raised due solely to the consignor's own bids.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- how often is a 20K lot languishing at 5K with a minute to go? That seems almost impossible.