T206's....show us your BROAD LEAF's

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Here is the list from the Sovereign Thread

350 Series cards

Abstein
Adkins
Arellanes
Barbeau
Barger
Becker
Bliss
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Charles
Clark
Clymer
Cross
Davidson
Frank Delehanty
Demmitt (NY)
Dessau
Dorner
Elberfeld (port-Wash)
Engle
Evans
Fletcher
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Groom
Hayden
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hunter
Davy Jones
La Porte
Lattimore
Lord
Lundgren (KC)
Maddox
Maloney
Marshall
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McElveen
McLean
Milan
Dots Miller
Mullen (port)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Nattress
Phillippe
Puttman
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck
Shannon
Sharpe
Snodgrass (bat)
Starr
Willett

350/460 Series cards

Doc White (pitching)
Willis (throwing)

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I have added Doc White (pitching) and Vic Willis (throwing) to the list of No-Prints. These two cards
appear to be good examples from the 350/460 Series that are No-Prints in not only Sovereign 350,
but also Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25. But, are found with several of the 460 backs.

There is a likely probability that I'll be proven wrong on these two cards since they are in the 350/360
group; anyhow, for now I consider them No-Prints.


TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks for your inputs and neat scans....Jim R....Art M....BcD....Brian W.
The Broad Leaf 350 list will be updated with your data in the next post.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

To date total = 95.....interestingly, 44 of the Subjects are Minor Leaguers and there are
only 6 reported HOFers....Beckley, Bresnahan, Huggins, Joss, Marquard, and Speaker.

Abstein
Adkins
Arellanes
Arndt
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Beck
Beckley
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Bresnahan (bat)....reported 5 times
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Carrigan
Casey
Chappelle
Charles
Clancy
Clark
Frank Delehanty....reported 3 times
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throw)
Dorner
Downs
Joe Dunn
Engle
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hallman
Hartsell
Hayden
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Jackson
Davy Jones
Joss (pitch)
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Kroh
Kruger
Lennox
Maddox
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
McBride
McGinley
McGlynn
McLean
Miller (Pitt)
Milligan
Mitchell
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Mullen
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fldg)
Nattress
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Phelps
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Rhoades
Rudolph
Schreck
Sharpe
Slagle
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Strang
Summers
Sweeney (bat)
Taylor
Titus
Unglaub
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman

[Archive]

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Can you explain why so many Bresnahan's lead the "pack" here with these Broad Leaf backs ?
Was he "extra-printed" or is this just mere coincidence ? ?

Also, have had a chance to "mull" over my Fac. 25 theory (posted in several prior posts in this
thread) regarding the relative "scarcity" of Piedmont 460 and SC 460/25 cards for certain guys
like Kleinow, Smith, Wheat, etc. ? Although, we know that these are sometimes easier to find
with other Fac. 25 brands such as Am. Bty, Cycle, Old Mill, and even Broad Leaf, and perhaps
your favorite, Carolina Brights.
And, I think this same theory also applies to some of the 350 series cards.

Anyhow, let me tell you....that is really a great picture of you and your wife. You're much younger
looking than I imagined.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Buddy,
I think Bresnahan batting would be considered the "Super Print" of the 350 only series. He is by far the most available Hofer in the series and has been located with all of the possible brands that I am aware of except for Drum. As to why? I don't have a clue,other than the sheet he was on seems to have been used quite a bit.

The 460 Kleinow/Smith thread: I'll have to do a bit more research on that one as I have both cards with Piedmont Factory 25 and 42's. I probably have the Sweet Caps too, but I don't track the factories as well on my spread sheets. I'll get back to you.....

Age?? 38 and holding, almost 39, and would you guess my wife is older? Yep, by about a month. I just hope we can make it as long as you have and look so good. But, of course your only as old as you feel, and by your tone, picture and post you seem more like 30 than late 50's.......


Besides it's not the age it's the milage and the laughter in between. In a house full of girls, I'm sure I won't look young much longer.

Be well Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Nice going on the Smith and Kleinow.....Piedmont 460/42 cards you displayed on the other Thread.
I have Smith with American Bty 460, Old Mill, Polar Bear, but had a heck of a time finding him with
just a P460/25 back for my Piedmont set. In fact he was the last card of the 518 cards in this set.
.
And, I never even considered finding a P460/42 card of him.

OK, I wish I was still in my late '50s, so I appreciate your saying so. I am a decade older.
I have two daughters....Zoe and Debbie....and three grandchildren that keep my wife and I feeling
young. The secret to staying young is getting thru their teenage years.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In an earlier post on this Thread, we have determined that there are approx. 192 possible Subjects
in this set that were printed with BL 350 backs. At this point we have confirmed 96 and are only 1/2
of the way there.

So, it's time for all you T206 guy's, that have not contributed yet, to show or tell us of your BL 350's ?

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Last chance to show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards....even if we have yours already on the confirmed list.
We just can't get enough of these cards; and, its interesting to see which ones seem to be more available.

We have 96 confirmed; and, somewhere about 96 more possible ones that we have not seen. That is quite
good yield.....50%.
Considering how tough it is to find this T206 back.

Thanks to all who have contributed their time and effort to make this Thread a success.

Wishing ALL a very HAPPY NEW YEAR

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

I apologize for my delayed response to this thread. I have two additions not on the list:

Congalton, Columbus
Bender, with trees

Good luck with this.
JimB

Edited to add: They are both Broadleaf 350's.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

JimB

No apology necessary, and thanks for these two new inputs. I will be updating the list as soon as
we hit the 100 mark.

Ted Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

UPDATED to include 2 inputs from JimB and one from a "reader" who emailed me.

To date total = 98.....interestingly, 46 of the Subjects are Minor Leaguers and there are
only 7 reported HOFers....Beckley, Bender, Bresnahan, Huggins, Joss, Marquard, and Speaker.

Abstein
Adkins
Arellanes
Arndt
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Beck
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Bresnahan (bat)....reported 5 times
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Carrigan
Casey
Chappelle
Charles
Clancy
Clark
Congalton
Davidson
Frank Delehanty....reported 3 times
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throw)
Dorner
Downs
Joe Dunn
Engle
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hallman
Hartsell
Hayden
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Jackson
Davy Jones
Joss (pitch)
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Kroh
Kruger
Lennox
Maddox
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
McBride
McGinley
McGlynn
McLean
Miller (Pitt)
Milligan
Mitchell
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Mullen
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fldg)
Nattress
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Phelps
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Rhoades
Rudolph
Schreck
Sharpe
Slagle
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Strang
Summers
Sweeney (bat)
Taylor
Titus
Unglaub
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill

Ted,

Checking over the "Super Set" data, there has been 138 different Broadleaf 350 recorded. BB

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You have to send me an updated Spread Sheet. You must of had a huge number of inputs
since the last one (dated 12/14) that I looked at.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks for the updated SS.....but, all I see are minute marks that have been added to
quite a few Broad Leaf 350 slots. Is there some kind of significance to these marks ?

Or, are they confirmed cards that I can add to the list in this Thread ?

Thanks, TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

To date total = 124....interestingly, of these Subjects, 53 are Minor Leaguers and there are 9 reported
HOFers....Beckley, Bender, Bresnahan, Chance, Cobb, Huggins, Joss, Marquard, and Speaker.

Abbott
Abstein
Adkins
Armbruster
Arellanes
Arndt
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milw)
Beck
Becker
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Bresnahan (bat)....reported 5 times
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Campbell
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Chance (yellow)
Charles
Chase (blue)
Clancy
Clark
Cobb (bat off)
Congalton
Cree
Davidson
Frank Delehanty....reported 3 times
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throw)
Doolan (fldg)
Dorner
Downey (fldg)
Downs
Dubuc
Jack Dunn (Balt)
Joe Dunn
Dygert
Engle
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hallman
Hartsell
Hayden
Hinchman (Tol)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Lo)
Hofman
Howard (Chi)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jackson
Davy Jones
Joss (pitch)
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (port)
Knight (bat)
Krause (pitch)
Kroh
Kruger
Lennox
Maddox
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
McBride
McGinley
McGlynn
McLean
Miller (Pitt)
Milligan
Mitchell
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Mullen
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fldg)
Nattress
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Phelps
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Rhoades
Rudolph
Schreck
Sharpe
Slagle
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Strang
Summers
Sweeney (bat)
Taylor
Titus
Unglaub
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I believe I can predict, with a high level of certainty, which cards in the T206 set exist with BL 350
backs (besides the ones we have confirmed in this Thread). There is a pattern evident with certain
cards in the 350 Series that do not exist with Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 backs, but are invariably
found with BL 350 backs.

If this theory is correct, then the following 22 cards should eventually surface with BL 350 backs....

Anderson
Atz
Barger
Bescher (port)
Carr
Clymer
Jimmy Collins
Evans
Fiene (port)
Gasper
Hall
Kelley
Lattimore
Livingstone
Mattern
McElveen
Mitchell (Cinc)
Pickering
Shannon
Stephens
Tannehill (Wash)
White (Buffalo)

How's about some of you serious T206 guys searching some more to see if we can find these cards ?

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

probably a dumb question but what back is the rarest on these cards? and what does it do to the price if compared to a common back? thanks

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

MIKE

1st....there is never a dumb question regarding the T206 cards....in it's entirety, it is a complicated set.

If I understand your question....the DRUM back is certainly the toughest back.... and it can only be found
on cards in the 350 Series.

And, others might say the "TY COBB" back is the toughest......but, many in this hobby do not believe that
this particular card was originally part of the T206 set. It is a unique back that only exists with a Ty Cobb
front. And, it's Factory (#33) belies this belief....as it's Factory # does not exist on any other T206 card.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

New inputs......

Lavender
Moran (Prov)
Ritter
Street (port)
Warhop

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

You know 1000 times more than I about T206 but I would also say the Ty Cobb back cards have a different gloss, not unlike the T213-2 series, and unlike other T206's. Also, in my short tenure I have seen far more Drums than BL460's.....but I will defer to your expertise over mine anyday....

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Leon,
Your both right, Broadleaf 460's are tougher than Drum's as a back, but as a Brand, Drum is by far the toughest. Be well Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Judson Hamlin

Ted- Found some more records that I had been keeping from 93-99 or so and can add the following to the list:

Livingstone
Maloney
McAleese
McGinnity
Phelan
Rhodes (StL)
Scott
Young (Minn)

All seen personally at shows/dealers/auction/etc.

Good luck on the continued search

[Archive]

Posted By: barry arnold

Ted,
I'm with you on the Cobb back not belonging to the T206s but am wondering
about JimB's take on this.
I understand that he has done some work on this issue. JimB?

all the best,

barry

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I didn't mention the glossiness on the the front of the TY Cobb/Ty Cobb card, since nowadays, all (or most)
of them are in encapsulated in plastic and readers of this would not be able to discern this difference from a
normal T206.

But, it's good you brought this up so that collectors are fully aware of the differences, and why many of us
disagree with this card being classified as a "true" T206.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

To date total = 136....interestingly, of these Subjects, 60 are Minor Leaguers and there are 10 reported
HOFers....Beckley, Bender, Bresnahan, Chance, Cobb, Huggins, Joss, Marquard, McGinnity, and Speaker.

Abbott
Abstein
Adkins
Armbruster
Arellanes
Arndt
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milw)
Beck
Becker
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Bresnahan (bat)....reported 6 times
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Campbell
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Chance (yellow)
Charles
Chase (blue)
Clancy
Clark
Cobb (bat off)
Congalton
Cree
Davidson
Frank Delehanty....reported 3 times
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throw)
Doolan (fldg)
Dorner
Downey (fldg)
Downs
Dubuc
Jack Dunn (Balt)
Joe Dunn
Dygert
Engle
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hallman
Hartsell
Hayden
Hinchman (Tol)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Lo)
Hofman
Howard (Chi)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jackson
Davy Jones
Joss (pitch)
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (port)
Knight (bat)
Krause (pitch)
Kroh
Kruger
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone
Maddox
Malarkey
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
McAleese
McBride
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
McLean
Miller (Pitt)
Milligan
Mitchell
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Prov)
Mullen
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fldg)
Nattress
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Phelan
Phelps
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Rhoades
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schreck
Scott
Sharpe
Slagle
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Strang
Street (port)
Summers
Sweeney (bat)
Taylor
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young
Zimmerman

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks for all your inputs, they are in the new updated list.

And, Livingstone happens to be one of the 22 cards listed in my prior post....."Predictability
of BL 350's".

OK guys, I know these BL 350's are really tough. But, look at the progress we have made in
confirming 138 of them. There are certainly more of them out there to be confirmed; so, let
us not give up on them yet.....show or tell us of any more of your BROAD LEAF's.

Here I am repeating the list of my "predictable" BL 350's that have not yet been confirmed....

Anderson
Atz
Barger
Bescher (port)
Carr
Clymer
Jimmy Collins
Evans
Fiene (port)
Gasper
Hall
Kelley
Lattimore
Livingstone....confirmed
Mattern
McElveen
Mitchell (Cinc)
Pickering
Shannon
Stephens
Tannehill (Wash)
White (Buffalo)

Thanks,
TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Dylan

If the Ty Cobb w/Cobb back is not part of the T206 set, then which set is it a part of? Are you suggesting that it makes up a set all by itself? I would consider it a part of the T206 set but only regionally produced. Also take into consideration that the Cobb pose on the front of the card is not part of any other set.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

New inputs.....

LaPorte
Milan
Phillippe
Shaw (Prov)

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card is indeed a mystery. But, because of the different style of printing on
its front and its unique Factory #33 on the back, it makes it very difficult to accept this card as
part of the original T206 set.

It is more like the T213-type (Coupon Cigarettes) cards. I have not seen the Cobb in the T213-1
set (Mild Cigs.), but I've seen the Cobb in the T213-3 set, and Cobb's picture is identical to the
Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card. So, I'm sorry, but I have to differ with you on this account.

You are aware that Factory #33 does not exist on any of the 524 cards in the T206 set ?

And, this is a very important factor that reinforces the theory that this card is from another issue,
or that it just stands alone as a "single card" issue.

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Dylan

Well from that point of view ted you can argue that both polar bear, produced in factory #6, and el principe de Gales, produced in factory #17, are both unique sets due to no other brands using their factory designations. Just like Cobb and factory 33. I agree that the card is mysterious, but the circumstantial evidence imo still points to it being a part of T206 until something more concrete showing otherwise is discovered.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

DYLAN

There are some T206 veteran collectors in the hobby that think exactly that....that each Tobacco brand
is a set unto itself. The Piedmont brand leads the pack, as it comprises all 522 cards; and, it is the only
brand that includes this many Subjects.

The Sweet Caporal (Factory 30) brand I think includes 470 cards and is the 2nd most available "subset"

The Sovereign brand would be 3rd and it includes approx. 400 cards.

And, each subsequent brand (EPDG, HINDU, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, etc.) has less cards in its subset.

Therefore, there is nothing unusual about the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card being a single issue "subset".

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

New inputs.....

Randall
Raymond
Schirm

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

To date total = 143....interestingly, of these Subjects, 64 are Minor Leaguers and there are 10 reported
HOFers....Beckley, Bender, Bresnahan, Chance, Cobb, Huggins, Joss, Marquard, McGinnity, and Speaker.

Abbott
Abstein
Adkins
Armbruster
Arellanes
Arndt
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milw)
Beck
Becker
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Bresnahan (bat)....reported 6 times
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Campbell
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Chance (yellow)
Charles
Chase (blue)
Clancy
Clark
Cobb (bat off)
Congalton
Cree
Davidson
Frank Delehanty....reported 3 times
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throw)
Doolan (fldg)
Dorner
Downey (fldg)
Downs
Dubuc
Jack Dunn (Balt)
Joe Dunn
Dygert
Engle
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hallman
Hartsell
Hayden
Hinchman (Tol)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Lo)
Hofman
Howard (Chi)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jackson
Davy Jones
Joss (pitch)
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (port)
Knight (bat)
Krause (pitch)
Kroh
Kruger
LaPorte
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone
Maddox
Malarkey
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
McAleese
McBride
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
McLean
Milan
Miller (Pitt)
Milligan
Mitchell
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Prov)
Mullen
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fldg)
Nattress
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Phelan
Phelps
Phillippe
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schreck
Scott
Sharpe
Shaw
Slagle
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Strang
Street (port)
Summers
Sweeney (bat)
Taylor
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young
Zimmerman