What card would you arrange financing to buy?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Questions like this always seem to invoke predictable righteous indignation, but my guess is that the real answer is that if the card was important enough to the person, the opportunity was unlikely to come along again, and they could afford it, they well might do it.

I do think there are some important qualifiers here when we talk about going into debt to buy cards, because details matter.

Are we talking about just bridging to some other sources? Maybe I can move some stuff around, and scrape together the cash over the next month or two, so I get a short-term loan or a payment plan with the seller to work it out? That seems like one scenario, and in general, a lot of people around these parts seem more comfortable with it, because the borrowing is really just a short-term timing/convenience factor, and not a situation where you're making payments over an extended period that will represent a financial burden for years to come.

Alternatively, are we talking about taking out a real, honest-to-goodness long-term loan from your local bank or credit union? Maybe even on your home equity line? Let's say it's set up such that you will make payments on it every month for the next 5 years, 10 years, 15 years or longer? For many of us, I think this approach is probably less palatable, especially as you start looking at making payments for that many years, which just seems like forever to be paying off a theoretically discretionary acquisition like cardboard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I do think there are some important qualifiers here when we talk about going into debt to buy cards, because details matter.

Are we talking about just bridging to some other sources? Maybe I can move some stuff around, and scrape together the cash over the next month or two, so I get a short-term loan or a payment plan with the seller to work it out? That seems like one scenario, and in general, a lot of people around these parts seem more comfortable with it, because the borrowing is really just a short-term timing/convenience factor, and not a situation where you're making payments over an extended period that will represent a financial burden for years to come.

Alternatively, are we talking about taking out a real, honest-to-goodness long-term loan from your local bank or credit union? Maybe even on your home equity line? Let's say it's set up such that you will make payments on it every month for the next 5 years, 10 years, 15 years or longer? For many of us, I think this approach is probably less palatable, especially as you start looking at making payments for that many years, which just seems like forever to be paying off a theoretically discretionary acquisition like cardboard.

Fair point, and I suspect different people would have different tolerances and it would also depend on how important the card was to them and how important cards were overall, I just think the categorical indignant no I would NEVER do anything like that responses these threads evoke may not be what many people would actually do.

[kmac32]

None……if I do not have the money for it then I do not buy it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Questions like this always seem to invoke predictable righteous indignation, but my guess is that the real answer is that if the card was important enough to the person, the opportunity was unlikely to come along again, and they could afford it, they well might do it.

The problem is the bolded red clause in the original post with the question: "Which card is the one you would honestly go into debt for?"

If you're going into debt for it... you cannot afford it. The two are mutually exclusive. Don't spend more than you have on baseball cards. How much of ones assets they should put into cards is a debatable scale, but the original query is clearly gross irresponsibility.

[Schwertfeger1007]

Still have no problem with it.

Find me a nice N173 Browning or Delahanty and I'll take out a damn HELOC if that's what it took to acquire them.

You can always make more money. Certain cards come up once or twice in a lifetime.

[Rhotchkiss]

Here is a real life example. This card came up in REA. It was expensive. I did not have the liquidity, but I had the net worth, to buy it. I borrowed (at less than 1%), against assets and bought the card. I let that draw stay outstanding for a while. Then interest rates started to go up, so I paid off the draw over a few months. Just because you borrow to buy something does not mean you cannot afford it. It can mean you would rather not liquidate an asset to buy another asset, or it could be an arbitrage-like move (if I feel the card will go up more than the interest I pay), or the loan can be a bridge to get into an asset.

I understand this card is a bit of an extreme example, but it’s all relative. The example is just as applicable to someone who really wants a $5000 card as it is to someone buying a BN Ruth or a 33 Goudey Ruth PSA 9.

I fully agree with everyone that you should not buy something you cannot afford - that goes for everything, not just cards. But borrowing to buy a card is not necessarily a bad move or the signal of an inability to afford something.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fair point, and I suspect different people would have different tolerances and it would also depend on how important the card was to them and how important cards were overall, I just think the categorical indignant no I would NEVER do anything like that responses these threads evoke may not be what many people would actually do.

I'm guessing that relative dollar amount also matters.

If it's 100x my annual income? That seems like a lot to borrow.

What if it's 5% of my annual income? Maybe that seems like something I can live with, for the right card and the right situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Schwertfeger1007

Still have no problem with it.

Find me a nice N173 Browning or Delahanty and I'll take out a damn HELOC if that's what it took to acquire them.

You can always make more money. Certain cards come up once or twice in a lifetime.

And in the end it may prove to be a good investment. I suspect most people have mortgages, isn't that debt? Oh wait, that's DIFFERENT. Well OK I get that. But people are too dogmatic and preachy on this subject for my way of thinking. I of course would not advise it as a regular practice, but the OP seemed to be contemplating it as an exceptional circumstance, and I can certainly see where it could be a rational thing to do and in any event enjoyment counts in life too.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here is a real life example. This card came up in REA. It was expensive. I did not have the liquidity, but I had the net worth, to buy it. I borrowed (at less than 1%), against assets and bought the card. I let that draw stay outstanding for a while. Then interest rates started to go up, so I paid off the draw over a few months. Just because you borrow to buy something does not mean you cannot afford it. It can mean you would rather not liquidate an asset to buy another asset, or it could be an arbitrage-like move (if I feel the card will go up more than the interest I pay), or the loan can be a bridge to get into an asset.

I understand this card is a bit of an extreme example, but it’s all relative. The example is just as applicable to someone who really wants a $5000 card as it is to someone buying a BN Ruth or a 33 Goudey Ruth PSA 9.

I fully agree with everyone that you should not buy something you cannot afford - that goes for everything, not just cards. But borrowing to buy a card is not necessarily a bad move or the signal of an inability to afford something.

Fair point, you can arrange deals to leverage assets or take out loans to buy things you can't afford with cash. I should have included the obvious caveat that it is not a good idea to buy things you cannot actually afford in the literal sense of what you actually have on hand. Spending more money than is in your bank accounts on a card at market value (as the OP stipulates, not some fantastical scenario where one is going into debt to get a card they can flip at an immediate big profit) is not responsible. I get that we all love cards here and many have a vested interest in continued value lifts but this is not fiscally responsible. I can see going into debt for a home, but a baseball card? I guess I'm more scared of losing my stability than everyone else here.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And in the end it may prove to be a good investment. I suspect most people have mortgages, isn't that debt? Oh wait, that's DIFFERENT. Well OK I get that. But people are too dogmatic and preachy on this subject for my way of thinking. I of course would not advise it as a regular practice, but the OP seemed to be contemplating it as an exceptional circumstance, and I can certainly see where it could be a rational thing to do and in any event enjoyment counts in life too.

Well, I've known people to get awfully dogmatic and preachy on other subjects. Just part of the fun of sharing our closely-held opinions.

I suspect even the great Peter Spaeth could name a topic or two that warrants dogmatic views worthy of extensive preaching.

[Schwertfeger1007]

It's not THAT different than buying a home to me. Borrowing money to buy an asset that could appreciate and should at least hold it's value is very different than spending said money on something like a vacation ect. If things get tough you can usually sell the card you purchased to pay back all/most of the loan right?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Schwertfeger1007

It's not THAT different than buying a home to me. Borrowing money to buy an asset that could appreciate and should at least hold it's value is very different than spending said money on something like a vacation ect. If things get tough you can usually sell the card you purchased to pay back all/most of the loan right?

I think most of us don't like the idea of being forced to sell our cards, for any reason.

And there's always the theoretical possibility, although it's never happened in real life in the history of the world, that your card might decline in value, in which case you can't actually pay off the loan by selling your card now.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here is a real life example. This card came up in REA. It was expensive. I did not have the liquidity, but I had the net worth, to buy it. I borrowed (at less than 1%), against assets and bought the card. I let that draw stay outstanding for a while. Then interest rates started to go up, so I paid off the draw over a few months. Just because you borrow to buy something does not mean you cannot afford it. It can mean you would rather not liquidate an asset to buy another asset, or it could be an arbitrage-like move (if I feel the card will go up more than the interest I pay), or the loan can be a bridge to get into an asset.

I understand this card is a bit of an extreme example, but it’s all relative. The example is just as applicable to someone who really wants a $5000 card as it is to someone buying a BN Ruth or a 33 Goudey Ruth PSA 9.

I fully agree with everyone that you should not buy something you cannot afford - that goes for everything, not just cards. But borrowing to buy a card is not necessarily a bad move or the signal of an inability to afford something.

Totally agree. I own a small business and just bought a nice low grade Green Cobb to finish my HOF portrait set. I took an interest free “loan” from my business to pay for it and will deduct that loan amount from my year end bonus to pay it back. I have a wife, a 4 year old and another on the way and wouldn’t jeopardize our financial security for a card but have no issue borrowing from my business and deducting it from my bonuses if it’s the right card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Well, I've known people to get awfully dogmatic and preachy on other subjects. Just part of the fun of sharing our closely-held opinions.

I suspect even the great Peter Spaeth could name a topic or two that warrants dogmatic views worthy of extensive preaching.

Card doctoring?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

And there's always the theoretical possibility, although it's never happened in real life in the history of the world, that your card might decline in value

Never ever. Though the roof and to the moon, inexorably and forever upward, exponential gains. GaryVee told me so. #invest kings

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Card doctoring?

I didn't want to presume on your behalf. But that could be on your list. I can't imagine it's the only thing! But maybe it's at the top of your list.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I didn't want to presume on your behalf. But that could be on your list. I can't imagine it's the only thing! But maybe it's at the top of your list.

Of things card related I would say probably yeah.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Never ever. Though the roof and to the moon, inexorably and forever upward, exponential gains. GaryVee told me so. #invest kings

The weird thing about Vee was if I recall right he was touting some pretty inconsequential cards along with the usual suspects.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The weird thing about Vee was if I recall right he was touting some pretty inconsequential cards along with the usual suspects.

He's a shill at least part of the time on the Topps payroll, and a grifter. It worked for him though. He has a bigger audience than anyone else in card land does, his outreach audience is massive. Hype certain cards, ride his own hype train, sell off before they inevitably falter because the demand is a manipulated short-term train he made up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

He's a shill at least part of the time on the Topps payroll, and a grifter. It worked for him though. He has a bigger audience than anyone else in card land does, his outreach audience is massive. Hype certain cards, ride his own hype train, sell off before they inevitably falter because the demand is a manipulated short-term train he made up.

You would think that wouldn't work twice.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of things card related I would say probably yeah.

Any room for these?:

1) Preachy people annoy me.
2) Cards only go up!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You would think that wouldn't work twice.

You'd think, but people are really stupid and willing to make poor gambles when people they see as successful tell them they can make money off X.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

You'd think, but people are really stupid and willing to make poor gambles when people they see as successful tell them they can make money off X.

Shop at Home, 2020s version.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Shop at Home, 2020s version.

Don West and Goldin were at least hilarious while they were pumping BS, ripping people off, and getting them to buy in on the scheme. That's about the only difference.

They say nothing changes but the names and the faces, but sometimes even that doesn't change.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here is a real life example. This card came up in REA. It was expensive. I did not have the liquidity, but I had the net worth, to buy it. I borrowed (at less than 1%), against assets and bought the card. I let that draw stay outstanding for a while. Then interest rates started to go up, so I paid off the draw over a few months. Just because you borrow to buy something does not mean you cannot afford it. It can mean you would rather not liquidate an asset to buy another asset, or it could be an arbitrage-like move (if I feel the card will go up more than the interest I pay), or the loan can be a bridge to get into an asset.

I understand this card is a bit of an extreme example, but it’s all relative. The example is just as applicable to someone who really wants a $5000 card as it is to someone buying a BN Ruth or a 33 Goudey Ruth PSA 9.

I fully agree with everyone that you should not buy something you cannot afford - that goes for everything, not just cards. But borrowing to buy a card is not necessarily a bad move or the signal of an inability to afford something.

Thanks for posting that Jackson gem Ryan, haven't seen it in awhile. I'm assuming if you were to sell that card today the gains would far outweigh the 1% interest you paid on your line.