WOW - Banned From PSA

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Posted By: Brian

Well, i have been talking with Joe O. via the email. i am going to call him tomorrow morning, everything will be fixed it looks like.. bans lifted and everything.

you guys have me thinking...

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Posted By: Rob D.

That is wonderful news. But I hope it doesn't mean this will curtail the PSA threads.

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Posted By: leon

"oy".....say what you want to but Joe O has some patience on this one....regards

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Posted By: Doug

"If you look on the front cover of this month's SMR report that Mantle PSA 9 is so off center it isn't funny."

I'm actually going to agree on that one. That's the first thing I thought when I looked at it.

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Posted By: Rob D.

This scenario is a perfect illustration of why incompetent grading companies, dishonest auction houses, ignorant autograph authenticators, etc. always will have a place in this hobby. Brian bashes, ridicules and tries to hold up PSA for its incompetence but in the end is willing to let bygones be bygones because he "need(s) the grading service right now."

Similar to bidders who suspect they're being shilled but continue to buy from an auction house because a "must-have" card is being offered, many folks who bash the grading companies are quick to hold their nose and submit their cards when it suits their needs.

It's laughable.

(Brian, this isn't meant to pick on you, because there are hundreds of other who would do and have done the same thing.)

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Sometimes you just gotta laugh.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey Brian,

1- Great if you get things worked out. That would be a good resolution.

2- You can't "need" the "service", but it does sound like you got serviced...

3- To be clear, I have no problem with PSA banning Brian, so long as they give him his $99 back. But to ban him and keep the $99, that's wrong. They can't have both.

I finished "Ponzi's Scheme", by Mitchell Zuckoff last night. An interesting read. Zuckoff had put a bit too much anecdotal stuff in there about various folks who bought Ponzi Notes... but it was a good book to clearly explain what he did, how it worked. Sure does remind me of some ball card collectors and some card grading companies.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Leon it's not about patience it is about politics. The guy was banned and obviously PSA does not like the negativity so now the ban is lifted and Joe is e-mailing the guy. I am going to come forward on some information tomorrow morning and we shall see how old Pro Scam Alliance is doing.

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Posted By: Steve

Not that I agree with it but it appears they can terminate someone AND keep
the 99.00. I'll defer to the lawyers but:


TERMINATION

CU reserves the right, at its sole discretion, immediately and without notice to suspend or terminate the TOU, your account (if you have registered) and/or your ability to access the Site, for any reason including any breach by you of the TOU or conduct by you that CU determines to be inappropriate.


In any event I'm happy Brian and Joe have formed a dialogue over this matter.

Steve

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Thanks for the post Frank. Did anyone ever stop to think why we have this garbage .5 system now? Everyone knows that modern graded card prices tanked from 2005 to 2008. Guys were no longer chasing modern graded 10's of rookies and submissions slowed so in order to put a charge back into the hobby and get alot of submissions we'll just add the .5 to the game. Now every Tom ,Dick and Harry that has a PSA 8 vintage card wants it bumped to 8.5 so someone else can try and bump it to a 9.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Absolutely right, Marshall.

And in a few years we'll see .25 grades, that they'll then be able to discern given advances in grading technology, not doubt. That will shake a new bunch of coins out of the pockets of the graded card guys. And the grading 'services' will probably take the position that they're offering it because people asked for it, being the forever helpful and accommodating folks that they are.

As for PSA's right to terminate the agreement AND keep the $99, I can't imagine that that would be enforced in an equitable proceeding... but who knows? Not many folks will try to out-lawyer them over $99. Instead they'd, hmmmm... post the mistake (that had been dealt with with light indifference), yea, post the mistake on eBay!!! That's the ticket.

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Posted By: Rob D.

I think we've got a love connection.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

And we'll be back in two and two.

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Posted By: Jim VB

"I am going to come forward on some information tomorrow morning and we shall see how old Pro Scam Alliance is doing."


Oh good! Because a day without a PSA thread is like a day without sunshine!

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Is it me or am i the only one that finds it odd that you do not hear much about SGC? Every day there seems to be a new Pro Scam Alliance post about some mishap. What would be nice if Mike Baker could start a company that only graded cards that were worth 500 and up. He really is the only grader i would trust on a high dollar card. It's a shame about GAI.

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Posted By: Eric B

Not only do I think keeping the $99 is legally OK, instances like this are common.

If you go to an Amusement Park or movies and cause yourself to get thrown out, do you get your admission back? No.

If you make terror threats on a plane flight and don't make it to your destination, you won't get reimbursed or your frequent flier miles either.

Buy a drink and then get thrown out of a bar.

I bet some of you can think of everyday instances like this.

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Posted By: Steve

I am going to come forward on some information tomorrow morning and we shall see how old Pro Scam Alliance is doing."


Oh good! Because a day without a PSA thread is like a day without sunshine!


lol my thoughts exactly.



Steve

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Posted By: marshall barkman

I can't believe the guy is even worried about the 99 bucks. I mean where is he going with that? Who is he kidding in stating he now needs the grading service. For what? To me PSA is like Adrian Peterson- Great stats but drop the ball way to many times.

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Posted By: Fred C

Brian,

You don't need PSA. They need you right now. They want that embarresment off the street. You're "holding all the cards". If PSA treated you poorly now what makes you think they're going to treat you any better after they get THAT card back in their hands? Why not switch to SGC? They have better customer service and they seem to have the respect of many vintage collectors.

I'd really like to get that card (in the PSA holder) and let it be a reminder to PSA that they can do a better job at grading cards and providing better customer service.

I guess that Joe is going to put on his corporate face and do back flips to get that card out of your hands. I personally wouldn't settle for any amount of grading vouchers. Seriously, would $500 worth of grading vouchers be worth selling out to PSA? Vouchers basically don't cost PSA a thing. It's pretty much transparent to them. If you're going to deal with PSA stick with CA$H.

Don't let them sucker you into feeling important. Like I said before, after the card is back in their hands Joe wont be talking to you very often, he'll sit back and tell all his buddies that he just took back a potential "ton of grief" and all it took was a little bit of sweet talkng and a couple of vouchers. He's going to be laughing his rear end off after the card is back in his hands.

Do the hobby a favor, keep the card or sell it to someone that will know when to pull that ACE out of the hole when necessary.

Does anyone consider that PSA bashing? I don't want to break my new year's resolution (this early) and bash PSA. I don't feel what I wrote was bashing PSA, it's not like I said that PSA SUCKED, or anything like that.

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Posted By: quan

seriously, i think you guys are way overestimating the level of concern psa has for this card. psa/orlando could care less whether this card is destroyed or not. ultimately it's all about the bottom line...$$$, whether the amount psa has to pay out for this card or the "hit" they'd get reputation-wise because of it. judging by the amount of mistakes the last few days and even as far as publishing one of them, psa/orlando is actually being nice in this case as it would cost them VERY little here with this card.

REAL TALK

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

7 day logic there, Eric.... weak.


With your examples you'd be inside the amusement park, inside the plane, inside the bar. And they're putting you out.

What if a week before you use your amusement park tickets, or your plane ticket, you post something on the web negative about the park or airline? Then it would be fine for them to refuse admission to you and yet keep the money??

Honda doesn't like how you drive the car you bought, they come and tow it away, keeping it, no refund. Or I sell you a card with expressed fine print in the listing that neither you nor any subsequent owner shall get it slabbed...

I don't think I'll change your mind about the idea that if PSA closes the door to Brian with his grading or membership or however that works, that they also get to keep his $99 for nothing. I see no reason that PSA should be able to keep his $99. $99, then charge a guy for grading on top of that... how do they keep a straight face?

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Quan it is very obvious you do not run a business and understand damage control. PSA is concerned about the card because it really shows their vulnerability when it comes to authenticating autographs. If that horrible thing can pass then how many slick fakes are gonna slip through?

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Posted By: dan mckee

Quan is right, Having dealt with PSA during problems, I completely agree with Quan.

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Posted By: JudgeDred2

Dan,

Is it possible that PSA may have learned from their mistakes with you and how they handled that incident? Probably not.

It sounds like Joe O is now willing to talk to Brian. That's a positive change. In this case it's an ugly mistake that speaks volumes of the actual service that PSA is supposed to provide to hobbyist/dealers/clients. In your case it was about a card (a HUGE card) that disappeared, in this case it's about a mistake he wants to make disappear. There is clear cut evidence available that proves that PSA really screwed up. If it were a signature that was close to being correct then PSA could argue it was their "subjective" opinion that it was real. In this case they don't have a pot to piss in.

The way I see it Joe wouldn't give Brian the time of day if he didn't care about this. I'm just hoping that Brian doesn't fall victim to VOUCHERs. I'd ride on my principals and not let PSA have it back. However, in a case like this if someone is going to settle for something I would hope it's CASH (lots of it) and not some vouchers and the promise of having a "personal" line of communication with the head of a company that proves time and again that there are new lows that can be achieved.

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Posted By: dan mckee

That would surely be a step in the right direction Judge! The next step would be sending me my legal fees that they state on back of their submission forms that they will pay if you win a judgement against them in court. I got screamed at and hung up on when I requested this from Joe.

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Posted By: Fred C

Dan,

Did PSA pay you for your legal fees? If so, I know it was begrudgingly. You sure must have a way with Joe. The sad part about your dealings with PSA is that a nice card was lost. On a positive note you did go in as David and beat down Goliath.

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Posted By: dan mckee

No he didn't pay me. I called and asked for them based on their claim on the back of their then submission forms. He just screamed at me for slamming him on Net54 and hung up on me. I think he likes me, I got a Christmas card from him this year.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Dan...what card was lost? Did they reimburse you the value of the card?

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Posted By: dan mckee

Magie error T206 and no Marshal, I had to sue them to get my money. I won the case but lost 6 vacation days, legal fees and travel that cost me $1800.00. Though I won, I lost. Search the board, the posts are here. Dan.

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Posted By: Brian

you guys really have me thinking.. i do not really need the PSA service, i have lived without for years and years of collecting.

i am just not sure how big of an impact this card will have on PSA.

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Posted By: peter ullman

this incident will have little to no impact on psa.

on the other hand...the culmination of incidences as of lately may have some impact on psa.

can we blame all of this on Alan Hager?!

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Brian....you should now post the card on e-bay because it will bring a premium. I will persoanlly bid on it and i'm sure so will others.

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Posted By: macboube

Sure, they are far from perfect and make mistakes. Who does not? Just look at the plight of our country, the world right now. I'll tell you one thing, PSA has virtually single handedly taken this game to unforeseen levels.....good, bad, or otherwise.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Peter, I believe that 90% of all the world's problems can be traced back to Alan Hager.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Up for bids we have a 1939 Play Ball Frankie Hayes! What do I hear to start the bidding off?

--Ten cents!

The gentleman bids ten cents! We have twelve cents on the phone from Japan!

--Aww, shucks. All I brought with me was a dime!

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Posted By: Zinn

"Oh good! Because a day without a PSA thread is like a day without sunshine!"

Oh snap!

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Posted By: Steve

I'll bid a dollar.


Steve

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Posted By: Brian

Talked to Joe

short but sweet.. i am still in the process of resolving this.. but to quote Joe -

"mistakes happen, especially when dealing with high volume"

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Posted By: Rob D.

Please keep us updated. Every step of the way.

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Posted By: Brian

10-4 good buddy

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Posted By: JDRUM

RIGHTEOUS!

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Posted By: Jim VB

Looks like we got us a convoy!

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Posted By: Anthony S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1bzZheWk

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

We could tell by the smell we were headed for Hell....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyK1zbYV9BE

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Dan,

One of the first 45's I ever bought. I was about 8.


p.s. About a month ago, I had to explain to a 25 year-old what 45's were. Sigh.

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Posted By: Rob D.

The fact I knew C.W. McCall was responsible for that song makes me feel proud and ashamed at the same time.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Quick--who did "The Hustle"?

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Posted By: JDRUM

TSOP?
OK, Van McCoy Orchestra?

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Nope!

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Posted By: Brian

"It's a shame about GAI"

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.