What Do You Do When A Card Has Been Lost In The Mail?

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Posted By: leon

It is solely each parties responsibility to get their end of the deal to the other if nothing was mentioned. Period.

Addie- if the buyer sent money and it got lost would you still feel he should get the card?

The age of the members and addressees have little to do with the situation. I do tend to be more conservative when dealing with folks I don't know well.....

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

nm

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Posted By: Dave F

Your just as upset? You have $150 in your pocket. The buyer doesn't have a card. You don't feel you should compensate that...and your just as upset?

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

Dave I really don't understand what your deal is. I'm upset a person lost a card, yes. Is that too much for you? Maybe the money is the issue that is important to you, but not me. I don't like to see people lose out on something like this. Is that too much to handle as well? I don't want to lose the money either but I don't like the feeling of buying something and being excited about it and then not receiving it. That is a let down and a horrible feeling I don't like to see people I deal with go through.

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Posted By: Jerry Rucker

I just had a similar situation with an ebay sale where a buyer in Australia won a 650.00 robot from me but had it shipped to his wife in the states. About 2 weeks after I shipped the robot he emails me telling me they haven't recieved it yet. The sale had insurance but it's still worrisome when something that expensive is missing and collecting from the Post Office is a hassle. Luckily I had included a signature confimation and when I emailed him and showed him where she had signed for the Robot, they miraculously found it. I don't think they were trying to pull anything, I just don't think his wife cares as much about Robots as he does.

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Posted By: Cat

If I sell something, I feel that I am accountable for the package. The means by which I protect myself varies. I use a lot of instinct when I ship something.

For all relatively small dollar items ($100 or less) I sell on EBay I charge $3 for shipping and OPTIONAL insurance. But just because insurance is optional, does not mean that I won't elect to put insurance on it anyway and eat the difference, especially with those buyers with relatively poor or limited feedback. EVERYTHING I send (unless it is highly insured or registered goes with delivery confirmation) has delivery confirmation.

If it is a mid-range dollar item ($100-500), I normally charge $4 and OPTIONAL insurance. But, for the $4 I put SOME insurance on the package and delivery confirmation. The amount of insurance is based on my comfort with the buyer (could be $100 worth of insurance or full purchase price). If they buy insurance, of course, it is fully insured. My instinct has always been that insured packages are treated a little differently by the postal service than the non-insured.

If it is a multi-thousand dollar item, I ship it registered and let people know that it may take awhile to get to their location.

On Wednesday, I shipped $1,200 worth of cards to a friend/board member. We didn't talk about insurance. What did I do this time? I put $500 worth of insurance on the item. That magic number is based on: I can use a kiosk at my post office, which provides mostly all the same services as going to the counter, but will only accept insurance coverage up to $500. Since, I didn't feel like waiting in line, I used the kiosk and put $500 on it. BTW, those postal kiosks are great. Usually, no waiting. I can go to the post office at midnight and mail my items. If it wasn't for having that kiosk available, my EBay sells would change drastically. They also print out big labels with bar-coded ZIP codes and I believe this expedites shipping. I get a lot of e-mails regarding how quickly my packages arrive.

Yesterday, I priority mailed $6,000 worth of cards to SGC. How much insurance? $1,200 Why? I didn't want to ship it registered (which is cheaper at that dollar amount) because I wanted it to get there quickly. I didn't feel the need to spend the full dollar for insurance since SGC is entirely trustworthy. Anything over $500 requires signature and that comforts me. Theft of that dollar amount, involving the postal service, is a Federal Felony and I have always thought that one would have to think long and hard before going that route.

Most of this is simply instinct, but it has worked so far. No Problems!

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

Addie, you started this thread. YOU asked "What is the proper thing to do? Is it just something that happens from time to time and the buyer takes the loss?"

Several members have given you their opinion that YOU asked for. You don't seem to care for their advice. I think people understand your feelings in this matter, but don't ask for advice, if you have a hard time with the results.

Your attitude here is similar to the Mayo John Clarkson thread, when you basically wanted the card re-classified to a common. The majority of collectors disagreed with you then too.


Good luck to you.

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Posted By: Dave F

Addie-

Did you read this at the top of the BST page?

"Posters assume all responsibility for their own transactions"



According to you Addie, if I list a card on the BST for $500, then it shouldn't be a matter of someone being able to quickly email me saying "I'll take it", since listing the card at $500 they shouldn't assume I'm including insurance..instead they should have to jump through hoops to find out all the details. It should come down to who can email me the fastest asking about shipping method, insurance, and what kind of box your going to send the card in?

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Posted By: barrysloate

SGC is trustworthy, but that package could still get lost in the mail. I would have sent it registered even if it took a few extra days. There's all ways of doing it.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Addie,

You need to grow up and stop pissing and whining "Why me?" Quit arguing with Dave when he is simply answering the question you asked.

You seem to be missing an important point here.

Did you get the buyers money? If yes, then he completed his end of the deal.

Did he get the card (or more importantly, can you prove he got the card)? If no, then you have not completed your end of the deal.

At the very least, the lesson here should be to always ship with Delivery Confirmation. For 65 or 75 cents you could have swung this whole argument to your side. If you had proof it was delivered, it would be a different story.

Is the buyer a regular board member? That may have some bearing, but I'm afraid it's probably on you to fix this. You talk about the buyer not protecting himself with insurance. Wrong. The insurance protection is for YOU, not him. If you can pass that cost along to him... fine. If not, it's a business expense you must bear.

Unfortunately for you, this problem will fall on you. If you refuse to refund the money, you'll have a hard time doing B/S/T deals going forward. I know I have already decided, after reading this thread, that it would take a lot to make me buy from you on the B/S/T. Your reluctance to do what is right, and what everyone is telling you is right, is very telling about your business sense.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim is correct. Insurance protects the seller. If the buyer sends the payment, he has no other responsibility.

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Posted By: leon

I agree with every single thing you said. However (don't you hate the "howevers"?) I think we should be a little bit more patient with a younger person (hi Addie) than crusty guys like ourselves. I am NOT saying anything changes fundamentally but we should have more patience. Yes, he's playing with mostly older guys and that's the way it goes but still.....I think Addie is a good guy and is still understanding and learning the ways of life and business. This really will be a learning lesson for him.......Lets take the high road here......
When I was 18-20 I was really an arse.....If I were on this board back then I would have had all enemies and no friends.....best regards


PS....Addie- this one is going to be on you, my friend....

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Posted By: Cat

Barry...there is no doubt I am probably more trusting than most. My experience is that when there is a problem with the postal service, there is often an explainable reason for that problem. I think people are often hesitant to admit mistakes...such as they addressed the package incorrectly.

Think about this: How many bills that you mail with the pre-addressed envelopes fail to make it to there destination? Almost never...well it has never happened to me (I'm 45 and have a lot of bills ). How many times do we read on the board about a mailing issue where the seller obviously addressed the package themselves? Every other month or so. If it is not human error then it's some manner of theft, which is where having a signature at some level of insurance comes in to play.

My point: care in addressing the package is a key and always write legibly when printing the return address. The postal service isn't perfect but they are pretty darn good.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree that the postal service gets it right virtually all of the time, even if the postal employees don't always work as hard as they should.

But I don't like scrimping on postal insurance. I guess because this is my livelihood I try not to cut corners. I like to insure packages for their full value.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Leon,

I agree, but that's why I waited 50+ posts into the thread. When I first read his initial post, I knew what the board was going to tell him. He doesn't seem to be getting it. Personally, as the father of two teenagers, I have found that the direct approach sometimes helps things sink in. (Not always.)

Addie,

No hard feelings intended. You have always seemed like a bright, enthusiastic guy. Into vintage cards at a much early age than most of us were. But please, if you ask for everyone's opinion, don't argue and attack when they give it. I hope this works out for you in the end.


Edited to add: Leon,


"Crusty"????? Who? Me?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I do a moderate amount of selling on the B/S/T boards and I always insure those transactions if it is more than an amount than I'm willing to pay for out of pocket if it gets lost. Usually less than $50 I won't insure, but anything over that I automatically insure it. On ebay I guess I take a different tact in that I offer insurance, but if the buyer doesn't take it then I'll usually get delivery confirmation to protect myself.

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Posted By: leon

Yes, we are crusty ......we really need to meet some day as we are only a few miles from each other. You and Jeff P live even closer to each other as I think he's in Plano.....Maybe I will have another get together at my house soon? It was a little anti-climatic last time but fun. regards

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Not much I can add to this discussion that everyone hasn't already touched on. I think Dave F., Jim and Leon are spot on with their suggestions though.

A little bit about how I go about selling cards ....I always list cards with prices next to them and include a disclaimer somewhere in the post about "prices include shipping/insurance". Sort of clears that little bit of confusion up right away. However, if I didn't intend on including shipping/insurance with the price, I would recommend specifying that amount up front so that the buyer doesn't have any confusion. Similar to how it works on Ebay I suppose.

I've never used Fed Ex or UPS to ship cards - always the USPS. I usually won't bother insuring anything under $100, however I'll only do that with someone I'm familiar with on the buyers end and of course under the assumption that if something did happen, I'd be fully responsible. That's sort of the risk you take for declining to insure your packages. Like other's have stated, you're fully responsible for making sure the buyer receives the cards in good order. That's all a part of holding up your end of the transaction. And since foul-play apparently isn't a consideration at this point, that burden falls on you, I'm afraid. Once the value starts getting into the $600-700 range, I start thinking about using Registered shipping (slower but even safer than standard insurance).

Hope it works out but in the end, I think this one is on you and I'd recommend reimbursing the buyer. You'll soon find that your reputation on this board is worth WAY more than any $150 baseball card.

Regards...
Brian

Edited to correct faulty spelling before Barry sees it

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I once shipped a 1953 Topps that got lost in the mail and I refunded the buyer. About three months later the USPO returned the package, card fine but note saying the package was damaged by PO machinery. So it's possible for a long delayed card to eventually show up.

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Posted By: Sean BH

I agree with most here that it's you end of the deal to deliver the card. If you print a shipping label with PayPal you are required to purchase delivery confirmation; and I think there rules are any value package needs delivery confirmation and anything over $250 needs signature confirmation.

I'm a little confused about the different shipping address situation, he asked you to ship it to a different address (work?) than was on PayPal? Did you ask him why?

This sucks for both parties involved but it still could show up, Jeff and I had a little thing with the post office last year and one day it just showed up.

sdbh

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Posted By: Mark T

i believe its anything over $200 needs sig. thats what they tell me at post office.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

One thing to add w/r/t Paypal: When you are using Paypal and asked to ship to either a different address or to a paypal account in a different name you need to refuse the shipment unless it goes to the paypal-verified address. Also, you MUST use delivery confirmation or other verifiable proof of delivery or you will lose any paypal dispute. Also, remember that just because you say "no insurance, no delivery guarantee" does not mean Paypal will rule your way; they key to proof of delivery not proof of insurance.

In this case, based on what you said happened, specifically your not offering insurance to the buyer and your not using a verifiable form of delivery, I would say the right thing to do is to refund the money and hope that the the item turns up again, in which case the buyer would be expected to pay you for it.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Sean BH

Hi Mark,
You're right about anything insured for $200 will need a signature to be delivered by the post office, but PayPal requires a signature confirmation for anything $250 and over.

sdbh

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Posted By: Mark T

ok Sean, i was reading too fast.

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Posted By: Sean BH

All them pesky PayPal rules...

sdbh

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Posted By: Joann

Wow. I think I am missing something here.

We have had this debate several times before and I don't remember it ever being so unanimous, or represented as being so clear. There have been very vigorous and healthy arguments for both sides, and although I think it often leans in favor of seller responsibility, I don't think it has been the bright line that is being tossed about today. Maybe it's because in those cases the seller was a well-known board member and some people wanted to defend? I don't know. I'm just a little surprised by the vehemence about it here.

And Dave, you know we have no beef between us and that I usually agree with you, but I don't believe that there is anything at all presumed on the BST about what is or isn't implied in a stated price wrt to shipping cost and responsibility. I know some people assume it, but it is not any kind of policy or even overwhelming practice. So yes, people CAN jump in and say they want something immediately without haggling details first - they just have to be prepared to possibly pay something in shipping on top of the sale price or at least have a discussion about it. It happens, and there is no clear yes or no on any assumptions that BST prices are out-the-door prices.

But Addie, I think you should probably make the refund. I'd be just sick about it if I were you, and this thread has me resolving to be more careful about getting insurance when I'm a seller - sometimes when I'm in a hurry I skip it. But I'd be pretty upset.

A case can be made either way as to whether the risk should have been negotiated or not, and whose responsibility it was to initiate that discussion. But it would probably tilt toward a seller-responsible verdict. More important is the other point a few have brought up. The BST flies and dies by individual reputation, and even though $150 is a lot of money you will be worse off if you dig in, reputation wise.

So I'd pay it. It's not like it's out-of-the-zone unfair for you to do so, and you will be better off for it when you continue to use the BST.

Finally, here is one way to think about it. If the buyer had sent cash in the mail - something that anyone that got their hands on it could keep and use - and you never received it, would you feel like you should still ship the card? Probalby not.

I still think there is gray area here, but the above analogy may help make some of the logic clearer.

But like I said, I'd be just sick about it if I were you. But I'd refund it.

Joann

(And I will NOT get in too much of a hurry to skip insurance on more expensive items again!)

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Posted By: Dave F

I agree Joanne most the time we probably do fall along the same lines of thinking..but on this one we'll have to agree to disagree. I just really feel if the seller won't ship a card insured (or at least pick it up on his own tab if he chooses not to insure) than the seller should be obligated to mention before the transaction is paid sometthing about "hey, do you want this insured because that wasn't in my for sale price?" that would at least be common courtesey rather than just saying i'll take $300 for card x, and leaving it up to a buyer to have to then ask the question "hey is this going to be insured?"

maybe its just in the people you get used to dealing with on here..but I can say I've never asked TBob or Leon or Mark Turner or anyone else what was included in the price I was paying for something...maybe I am the one in the dark here...

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Posted By: leon

I see some good points being made. I still stand by the mantra "if nothing is discussed each party is responsible for getting their end of the deal to the other person".

There are no set rules and there won't be any on the BST, except caveat emptor:) For me...when I sell something on the BST I will put a price up and if someone says I will take it then I usually just throw in the guaranteed delivery. Whomever says that the seller really SHOULD make the shipping/insurance cost (or no cost) clear in the initial offering is correct. I can't say I always do that though. For the amount of transactions that go on over there, I have to get involved in extremely few. One every few months, maybe. It's really a good place overall...and even better as it's free and somewhat overseen.....regards

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Posted By: Joann

Dave,

My experience on the BST has probably been about 80/20 in that sometimes there is discussion about shipping costs, responsibilty, etc. but most of the time not. But it is not a slam dunk never, by any means.

I def understand that you believe it is on the seller and that is perfectly fine - I think there are very good arguments for that. But I read some of your earlier posts more as saying that that's how it is on the BST, a more definitive statement. I disagreed more with the extent of the comments, or the certainty, not so much with the philosophical basis for them.

I probably lean toward seller responsiblity myself, but think it's not clear in all cases - that there are times when it may be more of a shared responsibility. Certainly a buyer that provides a ship-to address that has semi-public access by roomates or other residents might be one of these cases.

It may be fair to say that Addie was taking on the normal risk of lost in the mail, damaged, whatever, that is inherent in any shipping of anything. But I think it might just be a bit unfair to ask him to also absorb the less common risk associated with certain delivery addresses - different from buyer and access by other parties would be a risk present in this case but not necessarily all cases.

This is all just speculation because we don't know who all may have had access to mail at the delivery address, but I know some postmen leave packages in apartment stairwells under the mailboxes if it won't fit in the mailbox. I'm just pointing this out as an example of why I think it's over-simplistic to say it's always on the seller. If the buyer's delivery situation presents some higher-than-normal risk, I think he is obliged to let the seller know or at least talk about delivery rather than assume that the seller is willing to absorb this extra risk.

As an example, Leon often self-insures packages - takes the risk but does not buy insurance, figuring he will pay out of his pocket if there is a problem. I would think that if a buyer had an unusual risk on his end, Leon would need to know before shipping or he would not be responsible for it. If he knows, he has the opportunity to buy commercial insurance. If not, he's on the hook for osmething he didn't bargain for or even know about.

I'm just saying it's not that simple all the time.

J

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Posted By: Rob D.

Just today I committed to buy something off the B/S/T board for "$xx delivered." I don't think it's my responsbility as a buyer to ask the seller if I need to pay for shipping insurance in order to not be held responsbile if the shipment gets lost or damaged.

Conversely, when I post something for sale and include "delivered" with the asking price (which I almost always do), I feel it's my duty as a seller to insure the package or else accept responsbility if it doesn't arrive safely.

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Posted By: Marty Kohler

WOW..........I have to say that I agree with the majority here. Joanne as always makes very good points as things are never really black and white.... such is life. Since Addie took the time to ask the board the question, and even though he doesn`t fully understand business I am willing to share the burdon and except $75 back. (I would rather have the card and maybe there is still hope it will come. I do think this board is very cool with some very bright people. Thank you, Marty

P.S. The package was sent to JOHN Kohler my first name. This is never a problem.

GO YARD

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Posted By: Joann

Now it's my turn to say WOW.

Addie, here is your perfect example of what a few of the posters upthread were saying about reputation. This kind of thing will both boost and solidify Marty's reputation here, which will not only make future transactions smoother but is also something to be proud of. It's simply a decent thing to do on his part.

You seem like a really good guy. Watch and learn from what Marty just did. It's exactly what the BST is about, and what Dave was trying to get at in terms of the importance of trust and responsibility and good relations.

J

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

I had an interesting experiences once with the PO. In Nov. of 2006 I did a NonSports card trade with a fellow collector who lived in Balt. On my end I received $200.00 value in cards and I sent him $100.00 value in cards plus a $100.00 USPS MO. On that same day (It was a Monday, cann't remeber the exact date) I mailed a package to Australia.
The overseas package arrived on Thursday. My cards from Baltimore arrived on Wednsday.
Tha cards to Balt. are not delivered in a timely manner. On Dec. 15 I send a $200.00 refund to my trading partner.
After a big hassle with the PO I got a refund for the uncashed $100.00 MO.
The package finally arrives in April, undamaged with no explanation from the PO.
Proof of the date of shipment is on the MO, since I bought it, placed it in the package and mailed it.
My trading buddy returns the uncashed MO to me plus another $100.00.
Only bad experience I've had with the PO but it taught me a lesson.
Next trade I made had Delivery Confirmation plus Insurance.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

you do not have to insure the card for what it is worth. Just having ANY insurance is getting that card their with extra security. I have NEVER lost an insured or overnight package. SOme just have to quit being chincy and get rid of thier first nickel.

It should be an automatic insured price when listing on the B/S/T or disclosed oterwise. I think it is irking that someone can list a 3k card and then state that if you want insurance pay an extra 10 bucks. If a rediculous amout is stated on another card of less value and my package doesnt match the asked amount i will not like doing business with that person.

Asking price SHOULD ALWAYS include shipping and insurance on a card with the B/S/T. It doesnt take much to say you want 510.00 bucks then to say 500.00. Complicating a simple matter can lead to a blown deal. ALl remember that not all people are on the same wave length.Learn to do business more professionally.

SOme here never want to give a card up if it is less then what they payed for it. Learn how to buy and expect to sometimes pay to much , it happens. Balance will come eventually, that is all I look for. WIn some-lose some. You can hold a crap load of inventory for being overpriced ,then when you finally give one good deal....some may turn the other way and think...hmm....what is wrong with this picture, this guy never takes care of anybody.

GIving back always gets reward.

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Posted By: Scott Mt Joy

To sum it up-

Wow put Marty on the would deal with any time list, now thats how you build a great reputation.

Addie, IMO I really think you should pay the full amount, if this had happened on ebay you would be responsible, marty is being nice and letting you off the hook.

Board lesson, always insure when you are the seller and the amount is above what you would mind paying out if the package doesnt arrive. As a buyer I insure a card when I want to make sure it arrives in the condition I purchased it at.

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

I have worked for the PO for many years. (I delivered mail on a camel to the three wise men) Even though 99.9 % of the tens of millions of packages that we deliver every day arrive safely and on time, I would not even consider mailing a $150 card without insurance. For cards in the $10-$40 range - sure. Save the $ on the shipping costs and self insure. For anything more expensive spend a couple of bucks and use Insurance AND delivery confirmation. This way your card is protected against loss or damage and with the del con you can go online and see when it was delivered.

Sometimes you just have to be patient and the item will turn up.

Did you put, ie., 75443 for a zip instead of the correct 75434?

When the clerk put on the meter strip did the clerk put on the correct zip?

Did the carrier leave a pink slip in your mailbox, 2 weeks ago, informing you that you have a package at the PO? (This happens a lot. Look in the bottom of your mailbox for a pink slip.)

Did your wife take the package in the house and forget to tell you that it is sitting on her desk?

Do your kids bring in the mail when they get home from school?

Did you tape on a flimsy paper address label and the label fell off?

These are the types of things that cause most of the problems with parcels that are late or damaged.

Marty - way to go.

Rick

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Posted By: Bob

Without getting in to the insurance vs. no insurance morass, I will state that anyone who ships an item worth more than $50 and doesn't just pay out of his own pocket for a delivery confirmation EVEN IF THE GUY SAYS HE DOESN'T WANT INSURANCE is absolutely, certifiably crazy.
During the last year I have had three sales which were all around $250, two of which were non-sports related, that said they didn't get their purchase. Besides the initial heart failure, I easily checked the USPS website and saw where all had been delivered. It turned out that a wife, a daughter and a nephew had in each case picked up the package and then had left in a closet, in a basement and the last one was an undisclosed location. Two sent nice apologies the third never responded other than with a "harumph, I got it."
The reason I started using delivey confirmation on ALL transactions involved a Goudey Waner I sold on ebay which, like the roach motel, made it in to the Memphis post office but never made it out. The envelope, sans card, was later discovered in a break room.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Addie,
For what its worth if I were in your position I would have paid back the whole amount. Joann and many of the others make some very strong and good points. You should learn to "grow up" a little and if this is your one and hopefully only experience and it only cost you 150 you should consider yourself very lucky.Many of lifes lessons can cost much more than that! By you whining about who was right and who was wrong thats where I feel you lost the respect from some of the people on this board. Believe me I have based my whole life on my reputation and once you have lost that its very hard to get it back. You should have at the very least put a delivery confirmation on the item. 60c could have saved you and Marty alot of grief. I myself give Marty alot of credit for coming on and at least be willing to split the cost of the item (which he doesnt have) with you. Thats where his reputation has gone up 10 fold! I havnt seen you come back and at least tell us all what you have decided to do. Make an adult decision but above all make it fair. If you read the above posts carefully I think the answer is right in front of you.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Bob.....if he'd bought delivery confirmation, since it's lost, he'd be right where he is now. No delivery, no scan, no information and no recourse with the post office. If it gets delivered and the girlfriend puts it in the basket in the hallway, yeah, you're safe cause it got scanned (if it did). Only scanned when delivered. You don't know it's been held up in Parsippany or it's going through Chicago. Only when it's delivered. I don't like delivery confirmation. If they ever go to intermediate scanning of packages, it might have some value. Beyond that, none. Now....if you ship through paypal, DC only costs like 10 cents or something. That's about what it's worth. Like you said on a $5 card, you know when it's delivered.

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Posted By: Marty Kohler

Hello everyone,

Sadly I feel I must report that after all the help, advice and agreeing to split the cost with him "Addie" (Frank) has not returned e-mails or sent a check for $75.

It`s all to bad. His was a name I had seen on the board before, therefore, I didn`t expect a problem.........Marty

P.S. Makes me wonder again if it was ever sent?

GO YARD

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Posted By: Jim VB

Marty,

Sorry to hear about your ongoing troubles. I'd noticed that addie had been conspicuous by his absence for the last couple of weeks. I got the sense, both from this thread and one other, that he might have a hard time accepting and/or doing the right thing here. It's no excuse but as a college student, he may not have the funds to make it right. I suspected when he went "away" that it might be the last we hear from him.

Since he is using an email account at a New York State, publicly funded university the school might assist you in tracking him down. Institutions frown on people who use the school's name while conducting shady deals. A call to the college administrative offices might shake him into replying. At this point, I'd be asking for 100% of my money back, if I was you

In any case, I stand by my original assesment. His days on the B/S/T here look like they're over.

(Edited before posting to remove several traces of "crustiness"!)

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Posted By: Phil

I thought something was fishy about this the whole time. I thought the correct thing was to refund your money 100%. The amount of goodwill he would have got from sucking up the $150 would far outweigh the cost of the $150. As it looks now, no amount of money will bring back his reputation.

As Shakespeare said, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

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Posted By: Dave F

I would think an immedidate ban at this point no matter what excuse is given (if one is given) in the future would apply. Made me mad to start with the way the guy handled it and kept defending himself.

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Posted By: Jim VB

For the record, addie has taken the time to send be three emails this afternoon, complaining that I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'm not taking him at his word, I am calling him a crook and a liar, and on and on.

He says that this is none of my business and I should be "uninvolved." I did point out that he was the one who originally posted on the board and asked for advice. Now that he doesn't like that advice, we should "butt out."

He also took great offense that I suggested dragging SUNY Purchase into this. I'm not sure if he's a student or an employee, but it doesn't matter. If he's using their email service, they have a right to know.

I did ask him to stop emailing me directly and suggested he explain himself here. We'll see.

I agree with Dave F. Barring some really dramatic revelation, he doesn't belong here. He has put a price of $150 on him good name. Sad.

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Posted By: Fred C

What if Addie has a postal receipt that shows the zip code to where the package was sent? Does that suffice as proof that an item was sent? When I ship USPS the post office provides me with a receipt that indicates the zip code to where the package was sent.

In any case, the postal service kind of sucks at times and you just have to be PATIENT.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cashews

http://www.stopcyberbullying.com/

seriously though, contacting his school/job? thats kinda crazy.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

Fred,

I believe he has such a receipt (at least he says he does, and I have no reason not to believe him.) I think he mailed the card and it was lost or stolen in the mail. But as the seller, it's his responsibility to get the card to the buyer. What if Marty had mailed cash and could prove he had mailed it? Would addie still be responsible to send the card out, even if he had not received the cash?

In this case, the buyer can prove he executed his end of the deal. The seller can not. Marty's offer to split the price was great. Two weeks later, they're still arguing over who sent who an email. Addie hasn't sent a check for the half.


Cashews,

The email he is using is that of a public university in the State of New York. It is funded by taxpayers. If in fact (big "IF"), he is using their email service and not dealing in good faith, they would want to know and would be interested. I only suggested it because Marty said that addie had not answered his email. I don't think contacting the ISP is any more "bullying" than contacting the police if an internet sale goes bad.

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Posted By: Cashews

i don't know i disagree. if he's a student then he's paying for it with his tuition. the tax payer thing seems like grasping for straws. i never want to see someone either lose their job or be kicked out of school because of something so comparitively silly as the post office losing a package and him not wanting to give a full refund. for all you know the guy might end up paying it all back anyway. to go after him like that seems kinda sadistic to me. just my opinion.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom Gross

The poster "cashews" is the same person as the Addie Joss poster.

"Cashews" posted that he won this card in a past pickup thread:

http://tinyurl.com/4nze9s


If you look at the buyer's feedback, you will see that he also purchased a CDV with Abner Doubleday in it, along with 100 other people. Take a look at this post:

CDV:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350026827948

Post:

http://tinyurl.com/4xo8vt

The card mentioned in the post is clearly the same item as the eBay link.

Also, you will noticed that all posts by "Cashews" started when the member Addie Joss started to take heat from other board members.

Just my observations.

Tom Gross.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff D.

Fred C -

I believe that a self-serve kiosk would provide the same receipt. It would not necessarily prove the package was actually put in a box for delivery. Presumably, one could buy postage and walk out the door with the package.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything, just playing devil's advocate. The same can be said about delivery confirmation purchased through PayPal. It doesn't prove the package was ever actually sent.