What baseball person do you like the least?

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Posted By: Bob

Kenesaw Mountain Landis. The show-boating, duplicitous, ego-maniacal, judge and commissioner who kept Blacks out of baseball for almost 30 years, kept players in chains and cow-towed to the owners of the National and American League by needlessly and wrongly delaying a decision in the Federal League law suit, for banning Benny Kauf, Joe Gideon, Ray Fisher for nothing and then turning his head when Hal Chase, Smokey Joe Wood, Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb did worse things than these three, and lastly and most importantly for his cruel and insipid banning of Buck Weaver for doing nothing more than countless players had done many times before.
May he rot in baseball hell.
(Bud Selig is runner-up).

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Bonds said he used steroids, though said it was unintentional. Whether or not the testomony was obtained illegally, it is still Bonds' testimony to a Grand Jury. No one directly related to this case, including Bonds and his laywers, have refuted that he said this to the Grand Jury. And, beleive me, if Bonds didn't say it, he and his lawyers would have done a lot of refuting. His lawyers would have asked the judge to release a statement that Bonds was misquoted in the leak.

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Posted By: Cobby33

So is it strict liability? There's no allowance for conduct that's not intentional?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

In the Olympics, it's strict liability. It doesn't matter whether or not the intake was intentional, if you have steroids in your body it's considered an unfair advantage over competitors who don't have steroids in their bodies and you aren't allowed to compete. If Mother Teresa proved that someone slipped the steroids into her morning tea, she still wouldn't be allowed to compete as she would have an unfair advantage.

What I found most humorous about MLB's original steroid suspensions is that the steroids would stay in your body for months and a player's artificial size and strength would last for monthes, but the players were suspended for only 10 days if tested positive. This means that MLB had a drug system that allowed players to return to the playing field when MLB knew they were on steroids and had all the unfair advantages produced by steroids. MLB and the Player's Association were well aware you couldn't get rid of steroids and the benefits in 10 days.

One last point on players and drug rules. The rules (or lack thereof) aren't imposed on the players, they are approved and formed by the players. There are player representatives in the negotiations and formulation of rules, and all negotiated pacts have to be approved by player vote. In 1998 or 2001, if steroids weren't on the banned drug list, that's because the players didn't want steroids to be on the list.

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Posted By: John Spencer

For me, it is Carl Mays, the last of the legal spit ball pitchers and a renowned head hunter, who was at the delivering end of the only fatal bean ball in baseball history to poor Roy Chapman.

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Posted By: steve f

John, what is the source that this was intentional please?

I understand Mays was aggressive, but many players of the era had miserable dispositions. Wonder if there were any stats back then, ie; % Batter's struck/pitcher.


Some of the factors in that tragedy;

1. Submarine spitballer. Ball rises from low on the mound
2. Of course, no batting helmets.
3. Chapman reportedly crowding the plate.

Thanks,
Steve F

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Mays was far from the last of the legal spitballers, Burleigh Grimes for example pitched several years after Mays retired. Another interesting fact is that Grimes had a brother Sherleigh that was also a spitballer but was barred from ever pitching in the majors because he had not pitched in a major league game by the time the Mays/Chapman incident occured.
-Rhett

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think to suggest that the evidence supporting the contention that Bonds knowingly used roids is very weak is ridiculous. How do you think criminal cases are brought and won in court? Not every crime proven in court has a video showing it as it occurs. Witnesses to Bonds's use, co-conspirators that assisted him, anecdotal proof, his grand jury testimony (regardless of whether it was leaked - wake up, this stuff is leaked every day in America) and the documents which support the witnesses' testimony would have Bonds convicted in about 30 seconds if he was indicted for using steroids (assuming that was a crime). Don't confuse the present lack of an indictment against Bonds for perjury as support for the claim that weak evidence exists on the issue of Bonds's roid use. Perjury is a much tougher crime to prove: you need to show materiality, intent, etc.

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Posted By: Bill K

John McGraw, yes a good manager, but a horrible personality and had zero sportsmanship.

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jeff - good points. Also, this thread poses a very good question - not 'who do you think did things illegal', but rather 'who do you dislike'. Bonds isn't popular and there are good reasons for that - we don't dislike people simply because they were caught red-handed performing illegal acts. Bonds is a total package of dislikeable traits. On the other hand, the one game that I saw him, he made himself very available for photos while waiting to bat, flashing smiles and looking at the crowd. Of course, he could have just been high...oops.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

1. The person in baseball I detest the most is Mark McGwire. Head and shoulders above anyone else. He took all the accolades and convinced us all that he was larger than life, a hero who restored the game in the wake of the Strike, a Great American, if you will. But when the rubber hit the road, he cowered in silence, and refused to "talk about the past" by answering any of the questions directed to him. In hindsight, his ability to get away with the use of whatever performance enhancers he used ushered in the steroid era, as players realized you could become a national hero by bending baseball's virtually nonexistent rules. On top of that, in front of Congress, he agreed to work towards educating kids and ridding baseball of steroids - then he crawled back into his hole and disappeared. He is a disgrace and I hope he's ashamed of himself. Plus, he's overrated.

Guys who cheat in baseball don't bother me. Cheating and baseball have gone hand in hand since the 19th century. In fact, it can be argued that the very notion of paying players to be on your team was once "cheating". Giving guys a "job" at your factory to get them on your team was once "cheating". Throwing a curveball was "cheating". But a guy who cheats and still wants to be America's Hero, well, I think a guy like that is a dirtbag.

2. Cap Anson for all the reasons stated above.
3. Bud Selig because I have no tolerance for incompetence.
4. Albert Belle because he was a real jerk.
5. Cal Ripken, Jr. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think he's overrated, the Streak hurt his team, he refused to move over to third base despite his managers' request (although he eventually did), and he refused to travel and room with his team. Furthermore, any shortstop that thinks he can call pitches from the infield has a serious ego problem.

-Al

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Cobby33

Jeff:
Would you take the case against Bonds on alleged steroid use as (hypothetically) a private attorney general? Who would be your witnesses who you could trust to testify, truthfully, under oath? What would be your "competent," admissible evidence?
Just curious.

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Posted By: jP

i agree with Jay.

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Posted By: howard

The midget stunt was great! I agree that Disco Demolition Night was a ridiculous idea but it was the younger Veeck, Michael, that was responsible for that.

Loved him as a player but my least favorite baseball person right now is Joe Morgan because of his awful baseball commentary.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Cobby, your questions presume a lot. First, mere steroid use is not a crime. If hypothetically it was a crime, can I assume that I would labor under the real Federal Rules of Evidence? Would I ever agree to prosecute him for steroid use? Well, I'm a private criminal defense attorney and have never been a prosecutor. So, no, I wouldn't take the chance to prosecute him because while I despise him I don't think his transgressions rise to the level of such outrage that he needes to be criminally prosecuted for steroid use (though I might feel different if the crime was perjury before the Grand Jury). As for competent evidence, every person that has spoken to Bonds in which he has admitted crimes relating to his steroid use could come in and testify about those statements because the statements themselves would not be hearsay due to them being made against his penal interest and, therefore, would be more reliable. The documentary support would include calenders, etc., that illustrate Bonds's steroid regimen. There is a lot of that and a lot of people that have no axe to grind against Bonds who would testify about his steroid use. A defense lawyer would have to convince a jury that all of these disparate people somehow conspired together to destroy poor Barry. I've had luck with defenses like that on occasion...but those types of defenses are very tough to win when defending someone who most likely would not be deemed likeable by a jury.

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Posted By: Paul

I dislike Bonds as much as some of you, but I thought I would share a nice story about him. About ten years ago right smack in the middle of a spring training game at Scottsdale Stadium, A kid about six years old ran into left field with a bunch of stuff for Bonds to sign. He even had a sharpie, & no doubt his Dad encouraged him to bolt onto the field in my opinion. They were a couple rows in front of me. When Bonds saw the kid running at him, he waived off security a spent a minute or two signing all the stuff the kid lugged out there. Bonds also signed his own cap, & put it on the kids head, & wore the kids cap for the remainder of the game. It didn't fit very well, but luckily his head wasn't as big as it seems now. See he's not all bad, right?



edited because I just woke up, & need a spell checker, or more coffee, or who knows...

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Posted By: Rhys

I tried to seperate these two and cant do it as it is like the Chicken and the Egg problem. What came first, the Fans or the Boss?


TIE



#1 George Stienbrenner



#1 Yankee Fans

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Rhys, I'm shocked! Lucky you don't let your hatred for the Yankees get in the way of your reasoning.

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Posted By: ramram

That's easy - George Steinbrenner.

Thanks for asking.

Rob M.

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Posted By: Brad

JONH ROCKER (It Just Entertainment$)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/1999/12/22/rocker/

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

E-Rod. I mean K-Rod. I mean $-Rod. You know, that Rodriguez guy who used to play for the Yankees.

-Ryan