E107 - Entire set

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Didn't a lot of 45-50 E107's sell in last December's Mastro auction for about $30,000? How much would those go for today, just six months later?

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Posted By: Art M.

I know a collector who has a COMPLETE E107 Type I set. This set includes a couple of team variation cards (not sure if these are listed in the standard catalog). The same collector is only missing 2 cards from having a complete E107 Type II set.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

it appears that several people have been reading this thread and posts' with interest. i am an E107 collector that has owned over 300 E107's and followed them extensivly. there are 6 collectors pursuing the set, DOES THAT SAY ENOUGH ABOUT RARITY! , and we have a couple of newbies as well.

NO ONE HAS EVER COMPLETED THE E107 SET, no oldtimers, such as Nagy, Burdick, MacPherson, or others, a few came close, but none completed it, compare that to even RARE sets such as T204, to date over 20-30 have completed that.

in modern times we have 1 key collector within 1 card of completing the type 1's. another that needs less than 10, 2 which need 15-20 and a couple others that need 20-30. these numbers are a bit vague for indendity purposes.

the recent explosion in prices may or may not hold true forever, however the rarity is concrete. most of the E107's in the above sets are not gems, in fact they would grade vg+/- on most collector scales, but are much cherished by their owners as they represent a time and era unduplicated on any other card issue, save the W600's. in response to one post, when a card comes up for sale or auction we need, we pay whatever it takes to get it, as another may not come up for years!

i do not feel that recent sales will hurt the prices of the cards as the number of available copies is very finite. is there an end to madness? no probably not, what we consider high prices, rare coin, antiquity and art dealers would scoff at. in our world 5 figures is extreme, in theirs 6-7 figures is the norm. in reply to some that the price may outpace the buyers ability, the absolute opposite is true, rarity and price draw in the well healed and drive the market even higher. on this board we now have collectors that are quite knowledgable of cards and baseball history driving the market, they are not just investors but historians and keepers of the past.

i may try to post some E107 scans later to satisfy that pictoral thirst.

scott

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

One Thing I notice as well is that: In the coin market, some coins are conisdered rare, even though hundreds exist in different grades. In my opinion some of the truly rare vintage cards are much more of a value for the money (especially long term), as there are but a scant few known to exist (E107's, T207 Red Crosses, T205 Drums, etc. etc.).

Sure, they may not be "One of a Kind" like a particular Van Gogh painting. However, they don't carry an 8 figure price tag either.

I also agree that, just as in the past, we are not even close to the maximum prices for the truly rare vintage cards.

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Posted By: Julie

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Posted By: Brian Engelhard

I have a Van Gogh reproduction hanging on my wall; hand painted and not a foil transfer. Some sweat shop produced it, actually making it affordable. If you really like Van Gogh, you can see most of works in Amsterdam, Paris has several and I think NYC has one or two. I must caution that you won't find any nice "baseball" cards in Amsterdam or Paris, but if you look hard enough you might find some Football cards (ie soccer).

Now that I'm off track, I don't think you'll find a collector that has a vintage card and a Van Gogh.

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Posted By: Paul

I have been following all the major auctions for at least 20 years, and ebay since almost the beginning. Up until about 3-4 years ago, I had seen exactly two E107s for sale (a McGinnity and a Delahanty). I may have missed a few, but not many. My question is this: until the last 3-4 years, where were collectors buying these things? I assume that the few collectors who are nearing completion have been at it a long time. Where were they buying these cards 5-10 years ago?

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

I've had a few and what's the difference between type 1 and type 2? Is it the back--blank versus printed or something else?

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Posted By: Andy Baran

The Type 2's are hand cut and on thicker stock.

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Posted By: Chuck R

Unless my calculator blew a circuit, the upper limit on 8 figures is $99,000,000....has any painting ever exceeded that price?

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Posted By: Max Weder

A google search for "most expensive painting" turned up a $104,168,000 Picasso --Garcon a la Pipe in May 2004. I haven't seen any e107s exceed that price yet.

http://antiques2.iantiquesguide.com/article.php?story=20040506122442709&mode=print

Max

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Posted By: Josh K.

actually, the upper limit on 8 figures is 99,999,999.

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Posted By: tbob

I agree with much of what has been said about the hobby continuing long after I am gone but I do worry about the kids not buying those Topps packs, reading books about baseball, watching games for the sheer enjoyment, etc. Most of the Gen-Xers don't know Bullet Bush from Dubbya. I worry that the hobby will transform itself in to a chase for the highest graded cards for investment (there's that dreaded word again) purposes. One of the things which distinguishes our hobby from others like coins, stamps, etc. is the thread of history and personalities running through it. Merkle's Boner, The Called Shot, 56 in a row, Gionfriddo's catch, the Black Sox, the list goes on and on. Someone once said that the American experience has only created two truly original and noteworthy things: Baseball and Jazz. If kids quit buying packs of their heroes and wondering about those who came before them will the hobby survive in any form we recognize? No matter what the NASCAR-pro football-NBA fans say, baseball is still the truly American sport. Where else can you say "60," "61," "755," "56," "1919," or ".400" and people will know exactly what you are talking about. Who can name the point total for most points scored in a season in the NBA? Who knows the record for most touchdown passes? Who knows the record for most goals saved in a season. Baseball is America and America is Baseball. Ken Burns was right. I just hope that the younger generations will cherish the game and develop an interest in "Tinker to Evers to Chance" "The Sultan of Swat" and "The Muffed Fly" and it will translate in to a love of collecting those little pieces of cardbaord for more than investment sake...

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I was thinking, if you can call it that, that "8 figures" was like "85,000,"--which is obviously FIVE FIGURES. It only takes 7 figures to make a million. Sorry, everyone.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bob- If the hobby continues to evolve the way it is now, it will become an elitist pastime for the very rich, and knowing the history of the game and its players will be optional. Does everyone who purchases a Van Gogh know about the life of the artist? Probably not, and it doesn't matter. The next generation of card collectors will know what vintage cards cost, although perhaps not really knowing much about the player. Good or bad, the word "hobby" will soon no longer relate to the pursuit of rare baseball cards. Not the end of the world- things always change- but it will certainly be different for the next generation.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I know I don't follow art that closely (unless you count the great artwork on vintage cards). I thought for a moment, prices must have escalated in the art circles dramatically from a few years ago - over $100 Million - WOW! Of course, one would have to assume that if "Stary Night" ever came up for auction, that it would well exceed $100 Million.

The $10k or so that Leon spent on the Fan's Cigarettes Baker is a much better investment percentage wise than $50 Million on a painting - Good Eye Leon! Although, with Leon posting his collection for sale, he might be wanting to exit vintage cards and enter the art market???????

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Barry---Why do you assume that knowledge is negatively correlated with compensation? I would assume that the opposite is true or at least that there is no correlation.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jay- I lost you on that one. Could you please rephrase the question.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Why assume that just because someone has lots of money to spend on cards that they don't or won't care about the history of the game? Isn't it just as likely that someone with the ability to put their cash into anything they want would gravitate towards cards only if they understood and appreciated them? After all, cards aren't as liquid as stocks or bonds, as durable as land, they don't generate any income, and there are many lousy card investments out there.

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Posted By: leon

I usually agree with most things you write about but.....cards aren't liquid? Maybe not in the sense you can buy gas or pay your mortgage with them....but I think they are very liquid. Have you put an E107 or E94 on the BST section lately? I would think that you could have money overnighted to you by many individuals for these types of cards and, at the right price, almost any cards we have. regards

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Cards are semi-liquid as I define it. Will an extremely rare, high demand card sell fast for a market price? Sure. With anything else, however, which is what most of us have, you can get some money out of them quickly if you wholesale them to a dealer but it will take weeks or even months to cash out of a sizable collection at anywhere near market value. To me, liquid means you can sell the item at market instantly via a mechanism that generates an immediate enforceable right to the proceeds. If you have to take a shave and a haircut to move it fast, or you have to wait a week or more before the money is safe, it ain't liquid. Stocks are liquid. Mutual funds are liquid. Bonds are liquid. Sell a stock and it is gone at market immediately, the funds are credited towards your account immediately, and you know you absolutely will get them on settlement day because the market is designed to ensure that the funds needed are on hand (either in cash from the buyer or in the form of cash loan proceeds from the brokerage) before the buyer is allowed to bid.

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Posted By: leon

Fair enough....that explanation makes sense....I agree that when I sell a stock it's instant and the SEC makes sure there is good accounting for the money to be there ( I think ). If I have a vg 52 Topps, and I want full retail, it might not move so quickly.....regards

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Posted By: Max Weder

Adam

Stocks are much like cards. Many are highly liquid, but many others have low volume and are thinly traded. There may be often be a considerable spread between Bid and Ask.

Max,
whose vintage baseball card portfolio resembles NASDAQ OTC