What Would You Do ????

[KCRfan1]

I would pay off the mortgage.

Otherwise, buy the stocks.

[sb1]

Chances are the rate on the mortgage is far less than potential annual return on either the card or the S & P.

[Johnny630]

He has no interest in paying off his mortgage his interest rate is in the low 3’s. He plans to be working for next 13 years in his Gov’t Job till he retires at that time his mortgage will be paid off.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

He has no interest in paying off his mortgage his interest rate is in the low 3’s. He plans to be working for next 13 years in his Gov’t Job till he retires at that time his mortgage will be paid off.

Plus the mortgage interest is deductible, wouldn't make a lot of sense to pay off a mortgage that small.

[Carter08]

Half in stocks, half in a nice psa 2/3.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Thanks Bob, always appreciate your input !!

My friend/client whom I caddy for, his main goal is to enjoy the card and pass it along to his kids whom also enjoy baseball and collecting cards, mostly more modern but baseball, Trout and Soto . He asked me because he knows I have some very nice mantle cards. I don’t think the $150,000 spent on the mantle card would break him, plus so cool that he wants to give it to his kids when he passes. I’m leaning on telling him the S&P500 maybe grave two other mantle cards of lesser value to pass along to his kids.

Ahhhh, now see, that was the info we were all missing. LOL

So, this isn't truly a financial decision alone for him after all. In that case, I'd still go through all the various options and their pros and cons. I'd still mention all the various things others have said on this thread, as they are all valid and relevant for your friend and his ultimate decision.

Having said all that, maybe press your friend a little further on what he may want his kids to do with the Mantle, or multiple Mantles, he was hoping to give to them. If he has more than one child he wants to pass a '52 Topps Mantle card on to, that is super. But, does he want/intend for them to then keep it/them, or does he expect they may end up selling them, or what? He may want to talk about this to his kids first, if so inclined to possibly find out what they may think about all this. Of course, if he intends for this to be a surprise, asking them about it in advance is kind of a buzz kill, right? LOL

Sounds like your friend is in pretty good financial shape to me, at least for what his expectations are, so that is less of an issue for him. Now thinking about kids, and having multiple kids, that raises an entirely different set of possible issues and concerns. He can buy the one Mantle for himself for now, but then what happens when he leaves it to his children as sort of a group inheritance? Who keeps it, what do they do with it, maybe one wants to keep it and another sell for financial or other reasons, and what if they are on unfriendly terms years down the road (which can happen with siblings), and on and on? Having just one '52 Topps Mantle to pass on can complicate issues for his kids that he probably didn't/wouldn't want or intend. So, buying just one really nice Mantle may not be the best idea for him and his family after all. So what about him buying a lesser, but of equal quality/value, '52 Topps Mantle for each of his kids so they can have and separately decide what each of them want to do with it. Parents generally want to do right by their kids, and also not appear to be playing favorites. Which is another potential problem with buying a '52 Topps Mantle card for each of his kids to inherit. Although they would likely be lesser quality/condition than a graded 5-6 version, your friend will also probably want however many Mantles he does end up buying to all be as exactly identical in condition and value as humanly possible. That way he doesn't make it look like he's favored or given one child a better inheritance than the other. Buying S&P 500 stock interests makes it easier for him as he simply divides the shares evenly among his kids, and no one feels hurt or underappreciated. The real difficulty in this instance though may be in finding exactly similar, in condition and appearance (and value), '52 Topps Mantle cards for each child.

Assuming, as you noted, part of his plan is to also own a '52 Topps Mantle for his own enjoyment and pleasure first, and having the resources to acquire one now, I would think it may be best for him to go out now and get the Mantle(s) he wants, before something does change to affect his finances and decision. I would expect that Mantle cards, especially '52 Topps Mantles, will continue to increase in value over time, regardless of how much of a ROI they provide, and how they would otherwise compare to a ROI from investing in the S&P 500. And the longer he owns the card(s), the more meaning they will eventually convey to his children when he leaves them to them. So the sooner he gets one (or more), the sooner (and longer) he gets to enjoy it for himself. And in the end he knows he can still be leaving something valuable, as well as meaningful and personally important to him, to his children. Leaving shares of stock to one's children can be a great financial boost to them, but is very impersonal and without much sentimental value or importance.

Buying S&P 500 stock can end up giving a much better return to him and his family over time than buying a '52 Topps Mantle card(s), but then again, it maybe won't end up being the better investment than Mantle cards over a specific period of time. So there is no certainty that one choice, cards versus stocks, is better than the other. But if he really wants to leave something personal and of value to him to his children, in the hope that they will cherish and appreciate and find meaning in it, and maybe pass it on to their own children down the road as well, the one and only certainty is that shares of stock aren't going to be providing that. Leaving them shares of stock and telling them in his will to go out and buy themselves '52 Topps Mantle cards with some of the money from selling the stock is in no way, shape, or form as meaningful as leaving them '52 Topps Mantle cards that he once personally cherished and owned. That, to me, may be the biggest difference of all among all your friend's options in making his decision. It seems that in the end, tax and investment factors may just be secondary concerns, at best, in what he wants to do. Good luck, and tell your friend to count his blessings in that he is in a position to even have such a decision to make.

[molenick]

I have two children, one of whom cares about my collection and one of whom does not. In my will, I am leaving the collection to them both to do with as they may. But I see now that this might be a problem if one wants to keep it largely intact as a memory of their dad and one wants to sell it. They could try and split it in half, but while many items can be priced via a price guide, some are harder to price because of lack of comps or because they are not cards.

On the other hand, leaving an investment portfolio is pretty simple. It is sold off and divided equally.

But I am not about to sell the collection to finance the portfolio (or vice versa)…even though lately it has been more fun looking at the collection rather than shrinking numbers on a screen . Poor kids are just going to have to make do with inheriting my collection and whatever is left of my investments.

If he wants to buy and enjoy the card, then I am not sure where the investment advice comes into play. He should just buy and enjoy the card (it sounds like he is doing very well and this purchase would not impact him financially). And, as has been said, the more years of personal enjoyment he gets out of it, the more it becomes a personal item.

But I also don’t recommend the one card idea, especially if he wants to leave the children something they would want to keep as a memory rather than sell (if the idea is to sell it, then one card makes more sense, as does investment advice).

As has been mentioned, one card for two children could raise issues down the road. I like the two card idea, even if it may not be possible to get two cards exactly the same. Will the children quibble because they each have a similarly graded Mantle but the centering is not exactly the same? Maybe, but I think leaving one card to two people has more potential for problems.

Whether Mantle cards are a better investment than the S&P500, I will leave to others to discuss. I think it is amazing that this is actually a legitimate debate.

And the answer to “What Would You Do?” is to try and get into this guy’s will.

[sreader3]

Nvidia (NASDAQ: NVDA). They will likely have a dominant role in self-driving cars, augmented and virtual reality, and blockchain.*

But your friend may have more fun owning the faux Mantle rookie.

*I am not a financial advisor and advise that nobody should treat the information or opinions herein as financial advice.

Edited to Add: Just having some fun with the "faux Mantle rookie" comment. It's a classic card.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Nvidia (NASDAQ: NVDA). They will likely have a dominant role in self-driving cars, augmented and virtual reality, and blockchain.*

But your friend may have more fun owning the faux Mantle rookie.

*I am not a financial advisor and advise that nobody follow my advice.

Love it !!!

Side note, I myself do invest in NVDA :-)

[Leon]

S & P 500....it will be around but not sure how baseball cards will be doing.

.

[frankbmd]

I wouldn't want to participate on a thread that would want me as a participant.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

The Mantle number would have to be greater than $1,820,322 in year 25.

Was just going to say this, my number on the SP500 is 1.45MM over that span.

[japhi]

Related, Rule of 72 is a good way to swag an investment. For every year you return 8%, will require 9 years to double your money. Or 10% at 7.2 years, 6% at 12 years, etc. Very easy way to predict future value, longer the time period and more diversified the equity stack, closer you will get to the 8% number net fees.

[japhi]

Yes, with inflation at 10% you don't pay off manageable debt @ 3%.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

He has no interest in paying off his mortgage his interest rate is in the low 3’s. He plans to be working for next 13 years in his Gov’t Job till he retires at that time his mortgage will be paid off.

[LEHR]

With the hobby prices so inflated and the markets down right now I'd personally go with the S&P 500. If he really wants to invest in some cardboard then pump $100k into the S&P 500 and play with the $50k.

[Johnny630]

UPDATE

I was on the bag with my client on Sunday. He said he has decided to go all in on a Mantle. Feels like the time is right to purchase one for cash at the National this year. I told him I still think it's over priced at these levels and to be careful. He said If he get's it there great, if not he feels the stock market maybe a little lower than it is now and he will go all in on the S&P500. He is very laid back. My only advice was don't pay up for the Mantle and Be Very Very Picky.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

UPDATE

I was on the bag with my client on Sunday. He said he has decided to go all in on a Mantle. Feels like the time is right to purchase one for cash at the National this year. I told him I still think it's over priced at these levels and to be careful. He said If he get's it there great, if not he feels the stock market maybe a little lower than it is now and he will go all in on the S&P500. He is very laid back. My only advice was don't pay up for the Mantle and Be Very Very Picky.

Good to hear. After you updated us as to the "Why? behind his question, I figured he'd want to go for at least one Mantle now. Glad to hear he's going to go for it, and hope he finds what he's looking for at the National then.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I wouldn't want to participate on a thread that would want me as a participant.

Frank, nice spin on Groucho.

[parkplace33]

While I still say stocks, I think there will be buying opportunities at the National. Might hit a home run there.

[darwinbulldog]

S&P. Assuming the client has a good rate on the mortgage, I'd also go with S&P in lieu of paying off the mortgage early.

No one knows where the ceiling is or where the floor is, but if you told me I could have the card ten years from today or $300,000 ten years from today I'd choose the cash.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

S&P. Assuming the client has a good rate on the mortgage, I'd also go with S&P in lieu of paying off the mortgage early.

No one knows where the ceiling is or where the floor is, but if you told me I could have the card ten years from today or $300,000 ten years from today I'd choose the cash.

I tried but he wants the card. He also said if it is not there for his number in cash he will pile it all into the SP500 while not looking back. He has a great attitude about it all.

[Johnny630]

I think those bodes well for my friends chances at the National with 150k


https://catalog.scpauctions.com/1952...-LOT51386.aspx

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I would pay off the loan. Not advice, just what I would do.

I did that years ago and NEVER looked back or regretted paying 1 penny of it.

[Johnny630]

My Friend Is Felling more and more optimistic about being able to pick up a PSA 6 52 Mantle for 150k at the National.

I told him forget it, the market is down be patient and from now until late July early August/National Time, put that money in Google, MS, UNH, Devon, and McDonald’s