At last, the boxing price surge???

[Exhibitman]

Raising this topic because PWCC closes boxing regularly and some of the prices are stunners if real:

2013 Upper Deck Employee Precious Metal Gems PMG Mike Tyson /125 #EMT BGS 9.5
US $7,100.00

1999 World Boxing Magazine Manny Pacquiao ROOKIE RC #143 PSA 9 MINT
US $20,200.00
--are you kidding me? It went from $1750 in January to $20K in March??

1996 Merlin Sky Sports Foil Mike Tyson #217 PSA 10 GEM MINT
US $1,602.77
--from $600 in February to this today?

1987 Panini Supersport Italian Mike Tyson #160 PSA 9 MINT
US $3,800.00
--on a 2nd year card?

1986 Panini Supersport Italian Mike Tyson ROOKIE RC #153 BGS 9 MINT
US $12,000.00

1986 Panini Supersport UK Mike Tyson ROOKIE RC #153 BGS 7 NRMT
US $2,850.00

1966 Panini Campioni Dello Sport Cassius Clay Muhammad Ali #377 PSA 8 NM-MT
US $9,600.00
--holy crap...

1960 Hemmets Journal Boxing Cassius Clay Muhammad Ali ROOKIE #23
PSA 4 (PWCC-E)

US $17,366.00

1960 Hemmets Journal Boxing Cassius Clay Muhammad Ali ROOKIE RC #23 BVG 2.5 GD $5,488.00
PSA 2 GD $6,402.00
BVG 5.5 EX+ $18,705.00
PSA 2 GD $10,300.00

1948 Leaf Boxing Sugar Ray Robinson ROOKIE RC #64 PSA 6 EXMT
US $1,425.00
--The only PSA versions that have sold for four figures have been PSA 8s.

1912 Cohen Weenen & Co Boxing Jack J0hnson GREEN BACK #5 PSA 5.5 EX+
US $910.00
--actually seems reasonable for a dark-bordered easily damaged card.

1911 Boys' Friend Famous Boxers Jack Johnson #1 PSA 2 GD
US $1,060.00
--this has been a $300 card at best forever in this grade

1967 Panini Campioni Dello Valida Boxing Cassius Clay Muhammad Ali PSA 2(mc) GD
US $385.00
--Someone really paid this for a wrecked card?

1999 World Boxing Magazine Manny Pacquiao ROOKIE RC #143 PSA 8 NM-MT
US $3,483.00
--Another 500% in a month card?

1910 T218 Mecca Boxing Jack Johnson FRONT VIEW SGC 3 VG $610.00

1910 T218 Champions Prize Fighter Jack Johnson SIDE FACE PSA 3 VG $455.00

1973 Panini Campioni Dello Sport Boxing Roberto Duran ROOKIE RC #301 PSA 8 NM-MT $477.00
--Seems about right for the second greatest lightweight of all time.

So I decided to start auctioning off some cards. First few closed today:

1971 Panini Olympia #208 Cassius Clay PSA 7 o/c $355.00

1976 Panini Montreal #79 Cassius Clay PSA 5 $234.39

Lots of bids on each, too. I was pleased with the results.

Your thoughts??

[Alexcards]

Jack Johnson was the "GOAT" of his era in boxing... (5222) T206 Ty Cobbs in psa holders and there aren't enough to go around.... there are only (613 or 12%) T218 Jack Johnson cards out there... these cards have been under valued for decades!!! I picked up the 1912 Cohen Weenen PSA 5.5+ and thought it was a bargain!!! It doesn't surprise me at all to see his cards going up in price... they are still cheap in comparison to other cards out there.

[GasHouseGang]

Of course rarity is only part of the equation. Popularity plays an even bigger part of the demand, and boxing hasn't had nearly the demand. Where is all of this demand suddenly coming from? That's the only part I can't really figure out.

[G1911]

It's ridiculous and absurd, prices skyrocketing this much this fast are not the result of an under appreciated segment gaining greater interest or natural. T218 Johnnson's going up several hundred percent almost overnight for an incredibly common superprint is not a natural growth or newfound appreciation. He was heavily in the news and public consciousness in 2018 and almost no uptick happened; this isn't natural or a newfound surge in interest in old-time boxing or in Johnson happening.

I don't follow the modern guys but it looks about the same thing on them to me.

Cards are less and less about collecting and more and more about trying to print money via plastic slabs in which the cards themselves hardly even matter with every year, the 2020-2021 craziness feels like the result of this "collecting" approach. If the investors think they can make money by instilling a hype train and pump, they will. It appears to work well.

[Exhibitman]

All very good points.

I'd like to think that people are suddenly awakening to how great boxing cards are but I don't see where the sudden surge of people paying these prices is coming from other than speculation on superstars. Look at the Panini Tyson prices: that's a common card yet even in lesser grades it has quintupled. The PMG is /125 and is a beautiful card as well but has been a few hundred dollar card forever. Slap it in a slab and it goes into the several thousands? I know they are condition sensitive but come on.

I suspect that a lot of the boxing pricing is circular: speculators selling to each other, probably because boxing is a cheap bet, relatively speaking. If so I imagine we will see lots of action on the biggest names and not much changing otherwise. That would differentiate it from the surge in baseball cards, which has been very deep and very real for a lot of vintage and postwar (forget the modern riverboat casino shiny stuff). If we see across the board gains, I will be a believer. In the meantime, maybe time to unload the Ali, Tyson, Johnson and Louis cards, let the speculators play it out, then repurchase after the crash?

[maniac_73]

I was an underbidder on your Clay Olympics. Great cards!

[Peter_Spaeth]

To me, the one who should be going through the roof is Joe Louis.

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by G1911

It's ridiculous and absurd, prices skyrocketing this much this fast are not the result of an under appreciated segment gaining greater interest or natural. T218 Johnnson's going up several hundred percent almost overnight for an incredibly common superprint is not a natural growth or newfound appreciation. He was heavily in the news and public consciousness in 2018 and almost no uptick happened; this isn't natural or a newfound surge in interest in old-time boxing or in Johnson happening.

I don't follow the modern guys but it looks about the same thing on them to me.

Cards are less and less about collecting and more and more about trying to print money via plastic slabs in which the cards themselves hardly even matter with every year, the 2020-2021 craziness feels like the result of this "collecting" approach. If the investors think they can make money by instilling a hype train and pump, they will. It appears to work well.

I agree with everything you just said 100%. It drives me crazy when people on Facebook groups talk about how such and such card was so undervalued last year. And that is why they have gone up 1000% in 12 months. Cards are only worth what somebody will pay for them. And they were worth a certain amount for years and years. And most just started climbing last summer. And most of these people just got into the hobby last year but they seem to know so much lol

[Exhibitman]

I agree, Peter; happens to be my favorite heavyweight. He was as important an historical figure as Johnson or Ali but wasn't colorful, so his stuff is comparatively cheap.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I agree, Peter; happens to be my favorite heavyweight. He was as important an historical figure as Johnson or Ali but wasn't colorful, so his stuff is comparatively cheap.

In the context of the times, I have to believe the decimation of Schmeling was as big as anything Ali ever did.

I haven't checked but I also believe his string of successive title defenses still stands.

As the incredible Jimmy Cannon quote goes, he was a credit to his race. The human race.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by G1911

It's ridiculous and absurd, prices skyrocketing this much this fast are not the result of an under appreciated segment gaining greater interest or natural. T218 Johnnson's going up several hundred percent almost overnight for an incredibly common superprint is not a natural growth or newfound appreciation. He was heavily in the news and public consciousness in 2018 and almost no uptick happened; this isn't natural or a newfound surge in interest in old-time boxing or in Johnson happening.

It's not just boxing, but the same can be said about everything. Are there suddenly more Pele fans out there? More Messi fans? Are there more people watching Barcelona games on TV? Are there more hockey fans? More Gretzky fans? The answer is a big NO! It IS ridiculous and absurd - you got that right!

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Now where the hell did you find that? I love it!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

It's not just boxing, but the same can be said about everything. Are there suddenly more Pele fans out there? More Messi fans? Are there more people watching Barcelona games on TV? Are there more hockey fans? More Gretzky fans? The answer is a big NO! It IS ridiculous and absurd - you got that right!



Now where the hell did you find that? I love it!

Ahh, the saga of the NX5s. The issue was known to Burdick since it is in the ACC, but never came up for sale. I do not recall seeing any examples in Burdick's collection at the Met when I went there to research. I know of three total accumulations, all surfacing in the 2000s. A quartet of the exercise cards came up for sale, as did a single specimen of a boxer. A large lot went in the Legendary Auctions liquidation of the Dreier Collection. That big group was won by them in an earlier auction.





My strong suspicion is that the few existing cards were carried back to the USA by American servicemen posted to the former US colony and sat for decades until those men passed away and their estates were liquidated. There is also one wrapper known, which I suspect made its way here the same way.



I would guess that whatever there was of these cards in the P.I. were destroyed in the war.

That is the only known Louis. I've posted it for sale on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/203342001750. 10% off if sold here instead.

[maniac_73]

In December, I was buying sealed boxes of Kayo cards for 10 bucks. Last night I saw them ending auction at 80. It's bonkers