1925 Gehrig Rookie Exhibits Card

[Donscards]

But the 1925 is his rookie and needless to say, that is thenGehrig I want

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Donscards

But the 1925 is his rookie and needless to say, that is thenGehrig I want

Don,

With all due respect to its 1926 peer, the 1925 Rookie is THE Gehrig everybody wants! 👍

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Don,

With all due respect to its 1926 peer, the 1925 Rookie is THE Gehrig everybody wants! 👍

I agree. That is what I said

[Donscards]

The Exhibit Lou Gehrig Rookie is now up to 60K with the juice in Memory Lane

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Donscards

The Exhibit Lou Gehrig Rookie is now up to 60K with the juice in Memory Lane

would want to know who bought the card to truly evaluate the sale in my mind...but maybe not everyone elses

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

would want to know who bought the card to truly evaluate the sale in my mind...but maybe not everyone elses

Jake the auction has 2 more weeks to go---I think it will go higher

[pawpawdiv9]

This is a (excuse me) a PSA3!!!!!!
I would have more expected a Mantle RC reach that before a Gehrig RC P/C.
I don't recall a 1952 Mantle PSA 3 selling for 60K have we??
Will propel even higher prices?? Or is it another attempt from the buyers group?
Edit: I forgot we don't talk about the 'buyers group'

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

This is a (excuse me) a PSA3!!!!!!
I would have more expected a Mantle RC reach that before a Gehrig RC P/C.
I don't recall a 1952 Mantle PSA 3 selling for 60K have we??
Will propel even higher prices?? Or is it another attempt from the buyers group?
Edit: I forgot we don't talk about the 'buyers group'

Chris this is a tough comparison --I like both cards, but again, it is the Gehrig Rookie and not many of them in pop reports----Which card would I buy right now----The Gehrig---

[pawpawdiv9]

I was looking for a Gehrig RC before the 'burst' or 'explosion'
Missed out on it, and now be one card off my RC list.
It finally got its 'glory' as deserving a card it is.

[Leon]

I would hate to either miss out on something like the '25 Gehrig going up or try to catch this falling rock. There have been some spiked prices lately. Maybe Ken needs to do more advertising? Or maybe there is something entirely different going on, who knows anymore? I got nothing.... btw, I love the '25 Gehrig card......

1955 Topps Roberto Clemente Rookie #164 PSA 8 NM-MT

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=25991
Goldin Auction Final Price $52,675.00
10/29/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=33086
Goodwin Auction Final Price $150,391.20
7/1/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=32566
Goodwin Auction Final Price $146,803.20
6/10/2016

.

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

This is a (excuse me) a PSA3!!!!!!
I would have more expected a Mantle RC reach that before a Gehrig RC P/C.
I don't recall a 1952 Mantle PSA 3 selling for 60K have we??
Will propel even higher prices?? Or is it another attempt from the buyers group?
Edit: I forgot we don't talk about the 'buyers group'

[bcbgcbrcb]

Maybe one buyer with deep pockets deciding to invest in these?

Maybe a very high hidden reserve on the current one?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would hate to either miss out on something like the '25 Gehrig going up or try to catch this falling rock. There have been some spiked prices lately. Maybe Ken needs to do more advertising? Or maybe there is something entirely different going on, who knows anymore? I got nothing.... btw, I love the '25 Gehrig card......

1955 Topps Roberto Clemente Rookie #164 PSA 8 NM-MT

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=25991
Goldin Auction Final Price $52,675.00
10/29/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=33086
Goodwin Auction Final Price $150,391.20
7/1/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=32566
Goodwin Auction Final Price $146,803.20
6/10/2016

.

OUCH!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by irv

OUCH!

I should probably mention the advertising reference to Goldin Auctions was more of an inside joke than anything. That being said, they and I are in talks about them advertising in the future.
The thing that is hopefully shown is how things can change so quickly (as a best case scenario). I would be more concerned over scarcer issues being manipulated. I have no idea if any recent price is real market or not, but a '25 Gehrig vs a '52 Mantle vs. a '63 Rose, the latter being the quintessential case of manipulation, from what it looked like to me. I think the former would be easier to manipulate. (ONLY being devil's advocate for discussion....) I do love the Gehrig and maybe it is the next Ty Cobb back

.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

I should probably mention the advertising reference to Goldin Auctions was more of an inside joke than anything. That being said, they and I are in talks about them advertising in the future.
The thing that is hopefully shown is how things can change so quickly (as a best case scenario). I would be more concerned over scarcer issues being manipulated. I have no idea if any recent price is real market or not, but a '25 Gehrig vs a '52 Mantle vs. a '63 Rose, the latter being the quintessential case of manipulation, from what it looked like to me. I think the former would be easier to manipulate. (ONLY being devil's advocate for discussion....) I do love the Gehrig and maybe it is the next Ty Cobb back

.

My "OUCH" comment was for the severe price drop with that Clemente card, Leon, not your comment about the person named Ken, if that is what you were thinking?

[Rhino]

Im so glad I caught this thread. Im going to sell my 1925 exhibit psa 5. If a three goes for 60k. Im guessing my psa5 should reach 100. Just got to find the right auctioneer. Any suggestions? Ive used Lelands, very professional, but this was twenty years ago. If you guys could just give me your top 2 or 3 who you have used, I would really appreciate it. Oh, I do not think I want to ebay it.

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by Rhino

Im so glad I caught this thread. Im going to sell my 1925 exhibit psa 5. If a three goes for 60k. Im guessing my psa5 should reach 100. Just got to find the right auctioneer. Any suggestions? Ive used Lelands, very professional, but this was twenty years ago. If you guys could just give me your top 2 or 3 who you have used, I would really appreciate it. Oh, I do not think I want to ebay it.

Rhino I asked before, how about showing a scan of what your Gehrig looks like---I think you will do well with any major auction house

[irv]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Rhino I asked before, how about showing a scan of what your Gehrig looks like---I think you will do well with any major auction house

X2.

I don't think there is a member on here who wouldn't appreciate seeing that.

If it's your personal choice, for some reason not to, then no worries.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Rhino

Im so glad I caught this thread. Im going to sell my 1925 exhibit psa 5. If a three goes for 60k. Im guessing my psa5 should reach 100. Just got to find the right auctioneer. Any suggestions? Ive used Lelands, very professional, but this was twenty years ago. If you guys could just give me your top 2 or 3 who you have used, I would really appreciate it. Oh, I do not think I want to ebay it.

Show a scan which will only help it when/if it goes to auction. Keep in mind with the current auction there could be a hidden reserve and only one bidder. Plus, if the card is actually sold, then the high bidder will have one and might not want to drop 60-100k in a second one. The under bidder (if exists) is very important as they might be the one who benefits with the next auction of one of these. Ok, auction houses that come to mind in no order is Heritage, REA, Mile High, LOTG and Goodwin. I also own a high grade example of one of these which I bought before grading was around as it came from Lipset auction catalog back in the 90s.

[Donscards]

I don't know why Rhino will not sure a scan of the Gehrig Rookie---We are all interested----as to Auction houses, I have only used 2 on my cards and Memory Lane is one---I would suggest Memory Lane, The write up they did on Gehrig was fantastic and explains a lot about the card---I believe they don't have reserves ( I know I never had one) it goes whatever the high bid is---this card is certainly drawing plenty of interest and time will tell on the ending price---I know that the collectors that have a Gehrig Rookie will certainly be watching.

[Exhibitman]

On the 1925 v 1926 scarcity question, it not only is true of baseball, it is true of boxing and even nonsports. The company seemed to operate in two or three year design cycles with the later cards in the cycle scarcer. I believe that there was some overlap and reprinting too so that the earlier cards are double or triple printed as compared to the late sets. That is why assembling a 1921 set is easy compared to a 1923 set. The other issue is set duration. ESCO advertised its product as offering a new set every 60 days. So it is possible that the sets perceived as shorts may simply not have been available as long as the others.

For 1925 the set was a new design and 1926 was the second year. So the 1925 just plain seems easier, though some of that may be a confusion factor with the reused design on some cards. It can be a very subtle difference. Candidly I have difficulty distinguishing them except side by side.

[BeanTown]

Adam, is there a chance that they (sopia, green tint, blue tint, etc..) all be distributed both in 1925 and 26? Did Exhibits change every month or so with different variables of making them? If yes, then what was the reason?

[Rhino]

Hey guys, I will scan for you. Have to go to the box. It is a nice card. I lucked out in the late 90s. Got it at a Jersey show. Same guy had an autographed one also. Wish I got em both. The non autographed one is way more valuable....crazy. Made the right choice.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Adam, is there a chance that they (sopia, green tint, blue tint, etc..) all be distributed both in 1925 and 26? Did Exhibits change every month or so with different variables of making them? If yes, then what was the reason?

The design for each year was the same in 21-24, 25-26 and then 27-28, though there is evidence from the boxing side that the 1928 design carried into 1929 (the boxing cards have records and copyright dates on their backs and there are fight records with late 1928 or even early 1929 bouts listed on 1928 copyrighted cards, indicating that the cards were issued into 1929), which I think is true with baseball too since I find the 1928s easier than the 1927s. I think they milked a design as far as they could by reusing as much art as they could, then redesigned when sales dropped. The reuse is evident in cards like the 1921 and 1923 Ruth, which is basically the same card with and without a border. It seems that the first design cycle was four years, 1921-24,, then they went to two year cycles. That suggests to me that they found the sales drop-off unacceptable after about two years. It also suggests that there may have been a shorter window on the later issues in a cycle simply because the kiddies stopped buying the cards and the company quickly redesigned.

Further evidence of flow is found in oddball sets, sample cards, and publicity material. In terms of sets, the PCL set has a 1928 design:



Here is a 1928 MLB card:



Same design. I believe the PCL set predated the 1928 set because of a quirk on the card backs. The PCL season started earlier than the MLB season. The 1928 MLB set is found blank backed or with a printed PC back with a coupon on a corner. Every so often you can find a 1927 (green tint) MLB card with a coupon, but the coupon is a stamp, not a printed back:



When the PCLs have coupons they are of the stamped variety. That tells me that ESCO started experimenting with the coupon program in 1927 and went all in on it in 1928-30, when it expanded to other issues as well, like boxing and entertainment:

1928 copyrighted back boxing card:



Yakima Canutt western card:



Here is a 1930 catalog page stating that all of the series now have a coupon:



Stating that the cards 'now' have coupons in a 1930 catalog when we have copyrighted 1928 cards with coupons suggests that they rolled out the coupon program over the course of a few years. I suspect that as they redesigned the cards they added coupons. The implication of that rolling promotion is that the company ran with old designs as long as it could and redesigned when it had to, and thinking of sets as annuals is not necessarily accurate. Since baseball is a good seller and later baseball in each cycle seems tougher, I suspect the baseball issue dates were not set in stone as they seem to be with Topps but were part of the ongoing work flow.

Then there are the sample cards, which tell us more about the issue cycle:



These tell you flat out when the sets were issued. Now, here's a 1925 sample card of Pancho Villa, a HOF boxer:



It has a 1925 copyright date and tells you there are 96 cards in the set, i.e., three sheets. However, I've cataloged more than that in the 1925 boxing set, which means that the company rejiggered its issues mid-stream (other variations also suggest tinkering). And bear in mind that the boxing cards have printed backs with copyrights from 1921-28, so there is no uncertainty about which card is from which set. There are also some cards that are a lot tougher to find than others even in the copyrighted supposedly three sheet 1925 set. That just screams SP cards replacing other cards on later printings.

Here is a sample card from the 1950s with a baseball checklist:



It lists Salutation cards of Feller Williams and Joe DiMaggio alongside cards of players like Berra and Hodges. The Salutations set is treated as a 1939-47 set and the 'typical' postwar set is treated as a 1947-66 issue. Wrong. Clearly, there were cards carried across years. Hell, here is an uncut sheet showing Colavito with Detroit and Ted Williams Salutation:



The Rock went to Detroit after the 1959 season.

The publicity material adds another dimension but it is subtle; I didn't pick it up for a while. Here is a portion of a catalog from the early 1950s:



It has the 32-card HOF set for sale. I have seen later mail order sheets that also list the HOF set. That set is considered a 1948 set in the Hobby. Plainly it was multi-year and the conventional wisdom is wrong: the company ran it until sales fell off. It also has 33 cards due to a Ruth SP second card, not 32 cards. My hunch is that when the Babe died the company pulled a card and added in the second Ruth card to capitalize on the publicity. I suspect that this was not the only instance where cards carried through multiple years. In boxing, where I have researched this extensively, the set counts only work with multiple year carryover. And, as Scott stated above, designs were reused such that a later cycle 'set' may be in large part composed of reprinted cards from a year or more before.

Bottom line, thinking of the ESCO issues as discrete, evenly spaced sets like modern Topps issues is not accurate. The company ran with a set as long as it sold, and reused images whenever it could.

[Leon]

Great post, Adam. That is fabulous info....

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The design for each year was the same in 21-24, 25-26 and then 27-28, though there is evidence from the boxing side that the 1928 design carried into 1929 (the boxing cards have records and copyright dates on their backs and there are fight records with late 1928 or even early 1929 bouts listed on 1928 copyrighted cards, indicating that the cards were issued into 1929), which I think is true with baseball too since I find the 1928s easier than the 1927s. I think they milked a design as far as they could by reusing as much art as they could, then redesigned when sales dropped. The reuse is evident in cards like the 1921 and 1923 Ruth, which is basically the same card with and without a border. It seems that the first design cycle was four years, 1921-24,, then they went to two year cycles. That suggests to me that they found the sales drop-off unacceptable after about two years. It also suggests that there may have been a shorter window on the later issues in a cycle simply because the kiddies stopped buying the cards and the company quickly redesigned.

Further evidence of flow is found in oddball sets, sample cards, and publicity material. In terms of sets, the PCL set has a 1928 design:



Here is a 1928 MLB card:



Same design. I believe the PCL set predated the 1928 set because of a quirk on the card backs. The PCL season started earlier than the MLB season. The 1928 MLB set is found blank backed or with a printed PC back with a coupon on a corner. Every so often you can find a 1927 (green tint) MLB card with a coupon, but the coupon is a stamp, not a printed back:



When the PCLs have coupons they are of the stamped variety. That tells me that ESCO started experimenting with the coupon program in 1927 and went all in on it in 1928-30, when it expanded to other issues as well, like boxing and entertainment:

1928 copyrighted back boxing card:



Yakima Canutt western card:



Here is a 1930 catalog page stating that all of the series now have a coupon:



Stating that the cards 'now' have coupons in a 1930 catalog when we have copyrighted 1928 cards with coupons suggests that they rolled out the coupon program over the course of a few years. I suspect that as they redesigned the cards they added coupons. The implication of that rolling promotion is that the company ran with old designs as long as it could and redesigned when it had to, and thinking of sets as annuals is not necessarily accurate. Since baseball is a good seller and later baseball in each cycle seems tougher, I suspect the baseball issue dates were not set in stone as they seem to be with Topps but were part of the ongoing work flow.

Then there are the sample cards, which tell us more about the issue cycle:



These tell you flat out when the sets were issued. Now, here's a 1925 sample card of Pancho Villa, a HOF boxer:



It has a 1925 copyright date and tells you there are 96 cards in the set, i.e., three sheets. However, I've cataloged more than that in the 1925 boxing set, which means that the company rejiggered its issues mid-stream (other variations also suggest tinkering). And bear in mind that the boxing cards have printed backs with copyrights from 1921-28, so there is no uncertainty about which card is from which set. There are also some cards that are a lot tougher to find than others even in the copyrighted supposedly three sheet 1925 set. That just screams SP cards replacing other cards on later printings.

Here is a sample card from the 1950s with a baseball checklist:



It lists Salutation cards of Feller Williams and Joe DiMaggio alongside cards of players like Berra and Hodges. The Salutations set is treated as a 1939-47 set and the 'typical' postwar set is treated as a 1947-66 issue. Wrong. Clearly, there were cards carried across years. Hell, here is an uncut sheet showing Colavito with Detroit and Ted Williams Salutation:



The Rock went to Detroit after the 1959 season.

The publicity material adds another dimension but it is subtle; I didn't pick it up for a while. Here is a portion of a catalog from the early 1950s:



It has the 32-card HOF set for sale. I have seen later mail order sheets that also list the HOF set. That set is considered a 1948 set in the Hobby. Plainly it was multi-year and the conventional wisdom is wrong: the company ran it until sales fell off. It also has 33 cards due to a Ruth SP second card, not 32 cards. My hunch is that when the Babe died the company pulled a card and added in the second Ruth card to capitalize on the publicity. I suspect that this was not the only instance where cards carried through multiple years. In boxing, where I have researched this extensively, the set counts only work with multiple year carryover. And, as Scott stated above, designs were reused such that a later cycle 'set' may be in large part composed of reprinted cards from a year or more before.

Bottom line, thinking of the ESCO issues as discrete, evenly spaced sets like modern Topps issues is not accurate. The company ran with a set as long as it sold, and reused images whenever it could.

[BeanTown]

Yes agreed...great post Adam and I will read your post a couple of times. I basically get that the Exhibit company didn't have any consistent way of doing things. It would be great if we discovered the size of print runs they did on all their cards (boxers, baseball, football, actors, actresses, etc...). Adam, will you be publishing a book or article any time soon as you are a wealth of knowledge!

[smtjoy]

Great stuff as always Adam. Funny you mention the HOF set as I agree it was released over a few years. I also believe it started in 1949 as I have an 1949 exhibit catalog that list it as a new series (and its been dated as the 1949). I also have a 1950 order form where HOF cards are listed (you can also see the Sports Champion set is dropped from it). You can also see they use a salutation as the example card for 1949 Baseball Stars-



1950 Order listing HOF (also not noted as new)

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would hate to either miss out on something like the '25 Gehrig going up or try to catch this falling rock. There have been some spiked prices lately. Maybe Ken needs to do more advertising? Or maybe there is something entirely different going on, who knows anymore? I got nothing.... btw, I love the '25 Gehrig card......

1955 Topps Roberto Clemente Rookie #164 PSA 8 NM-MT

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=25991
Goldin Auction Final Price $52,675.00
10/29/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=33086
Goodwin Auction Final Price $150,391.20
7/1/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=32566
Goodwin Auction Final Price $146,803.20
6/10/2016

.

Or maybe the investor crowd is starting to leave the field?

Best to all,

Larry

[Snapolit1]

So cool reading about the exhibits and Exhibits Supply Co. One of you guys has to write the book on this. Amazing history. Call it "The Company that Sold the Most Baseball Cards (and Every Other Kind of Card Imaginable)".

[Exhibitman]

I've been gathering data for a while now for an exhibit book. The problem is drawing the line of where to cut it off. I want to cover all sports at the least. I am thinking that would be volume 1.

[smtjoy]

I hope you do Adam, your website was one of the first references on exhibits I used, I still enjoy browsing it. I also use your Boxing Card book all the time, it's the best resource book by far!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I've been gathering data for a while now for an exhibit book. The problem is drawing the line of where to cut it off. I want to cover all sports at the least. I am thinking that would be volume 1.

Adam - do you own any machines? Ive seen them around (and am sure you have seen plenty) and came close a few times to picking one up in decent condition. Is cool when the old cards are still in the panes. Even if it didn't work at all would be very nice piece to have.

[Exhibitman]

I'm not much for 3-D memorabilia but I did buy this:



And turn it into this:



Which was a lot of fun.

[BeanTown]

Great item Adam! Question... What size coin does your machine take? It looks larger than a penny? Did you modernize it to take a quarter?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Great item Adam! Question... What size coin does your machine take? It looks larger than a penny? Did you modernize it to take a quarter?

Knowing Adam he probably retrofitted it to take silver dollars .

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I've been gathering data for a while now for an exhibit book. The problem is drawing the line of where to cut it off. I want to cover all sports at the least. I am thinking that would be volume 1.

Count me in as a buyer, Adam. Love the Exhibits--best photo quality of the 20's and 30's cards!

Highest regards,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

I changed nothing, just cleaned it up. The mechanism never worked so it is just a display piece.

[pawpawdiv9]

FYI...Heritage is running a PSA 6 (MK) in Feb.
What it will fetch???? This may determine what the OP's 5 may fetch as well. Lets see your 5 there OP!!!!
https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

Coming in Heritage:

[BeanTown]

Great looking 6 and the question is what year is it 1925 or 1926. Is there a tint to it?

[orly57]

The 6(mk) on heritage is about to go over 100k with three weeks left! Looks like the past two auctions were legit. It has finally gotten the respect it deserves.

[rjackson44]

what are these fetching these days ,,,any help thank you octavio

[orly57]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

what are these fetching these days ,,,any help thank you octavio

Well, a psa 2 sold recently for around 36k and a 3 sold for 60k. The 6mk is on its way into 6-figures with three weeks left.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by orly57

Well, a psa 2 sold recently for around 36k and a 3 sold for 60k. The 6mk is on its way into 6-figures with three weeks left.

He's asking about 1928. Can't speak for '28s specifically, but I own a '27, and a similar example recently sold for about 2.5-3x what I'd paid maybe 2 years ago. That said, it's rate of increase is nothing like those '25s. Still kick myself for passing on a 2 that sold for about $2300 a few years back... likely my all time "kicking myself".

[orly57]

I guys he posted a pic I can't see.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by orly57

I guys he posted a pic I can't see.

No pic, just "1928" in the subject line.

Here's a pic though... this beauty (not mine) sold for $1925 earlier this year.
1928 Exhibits Gehrig 25.jpg

... and my pretty well worn 1927.
1927 Exhibits Lou Gehrig.jpg

[rjackson44]

Thank you guys pretty cards .there is one with problems in huggins scott auction.wonder what that will do..?

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

thank you guys pretty cards .there is one with problems in huggins scott auction.wonder what that will do..?

💥

[orly57]

Looks like a psa 7.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by orly57

Looks like a psa 7.

Instant classic.

[Snapolit1]

Yeah, I need one of these, but I draw the line where the cutting actually obscures his name. Pass.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by orly57

Looks like a psa 7.

Hahahahahah and what's more funny is that PSA will give a Zeenut a higher grade if you CUT off the coupon (which was the way the original card was distributed) than if than if you leave the coupon on it with rounded corners. PSA doesn't even give a cut Zeenut a qualifier. Buy the holder right 😉