Overpriced cards

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Do you ever look at eBay and get sick of the same overpriced cards being re-listed for weeks or months on end? I get it that some people will just endlessly fish for that one rube who will overspend but sheesh...

[1952boyntoncollector]

overpriced cards good for the auction .99 market if you are a seller cause buyers will pay more at auction knowing dealers charging way too much ...

[HerbK]

Yep, I sure do. Same old sellers - over and over. And another trend I'm tiring of, is the scrunching of reprints (and seeing reprints listed is bad enough even in pristine condition), and selling them for .01 cent. ONE CENT. Really?

[glynparson]

I do not have my searches set so broadly that a few of the same listings really do not bother me. Not hard to look past a few cards. Never understood the complaints in all honesty.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I do not have my searches set so broadly that a few of the same listings really do not bother me. Not hard to look past a few cards. Never understood the complaints in all honesty.

Plus, there are times when a seller with a wild list price will accept a reasonable offer.

[4815162342]

What gets my goat is that every time I buy a card it's way overpriced, but when I sell a card it's way underpriced.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Plus, there are times when a seller with a wild list price will accept a reasonable offer.

That is how I am, I put wild asks, but off e-bay will knock off as much as 25-30%, which brings it well within reason.

[brewing]

Originally Posted by HerbK

Yep, I sure do. Same old sellers - over and over. And another trend I'm tiring of, is the scrunching of reprints (and seeing reprints listed is bad enough even in pristine condition), and selling them for .01 cent. ONE CENT. Really?

I have no problem with the 1 cent reprints.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

overpriced cards good for the auction .99 market if you are a seller cause buyers will pay more at auction knowing dealers charging way too much ...

When I auction my cards starting at $0.99 I lose out on the deal 9 times out of 10. Now I avoid auction-style listings on eBay unless I protect myself by setting a reserve.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Why did God create sportscard collectors?






Someone has to pay full retail.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Do you ever look at eBay and get sick of the same overpriced cards being re-listed for weeks or months on end? I get it that some people will just endlessly fish for that one rube who will overspend but sheesh...

I just consider their stuff a "museum" instead of an auction and move on. There is one particular item that is priced at $49,000 that last sold for $2,100. It's been "available" now for years. I've been tempted to send the seller a note and ask why he think this is even remotely possible but haven't bothered.

jeff

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Do you ever look at eBay and get sick of the same overpriced cards being re-listed for weeks or months on end? I get it that some people will just endlessly fish for that one rube who will overspend but sheesh...

Super-old topic, but I'll play: If you were buying cards on ebay ten years ago, I'm sure you remember the great straight auctions, especially when collections or finds were auctioned off at the same time. We would hang out in chat and talk about them. Very exciting stuff.

Ebay purposely changed all that, so now you have high-priced BIN's.

So here is some wisdom for you: not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that ALL BIN cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will). I'll get low-balled by a certain percentage on every one of them. The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal. So to play the game, sellers overprice their cards, buyers then respond with a discounted offer, and the cards sell.

No, sellers aren't looking for a "rube" - they are looking to stay in business. If I showed you my accounting for this year you would stop whining.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even if sellers are searching for the one rube, why isn't that their business? Don't be the rube then, and move on.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So here is some wisdom for you: not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that ALL BIN cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will). I'll get low-balled by a certain percentage on every one of them. The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal. So to play the game, sellers overprice their cards, buyers then respond with a discounted offer, and the cards sell.

No, sellers aren't looking for a "rube" - they are looking to stay in business. If I showed you my accounting for this year you would stop whining.

Scott, very well expressed. Among the key statements you make is one I shall repeat yet again:

"The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal."

The smug remarks from almost every National attendee was how cards were so ridiculously overpriced. Just wait 'til its THEIR time to sell. The National vendors conduct their business just as they do on eBay. Price something nice very steep. Then negotiate with a serious buyer. As for someone who loves the card, but grimaces at the price and won't even ask about a counter offer---HERE THEN is the stupid one.

---Brian Powell

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Scott, very well expressed. Among the key statements you make is one I shall repeat yet again:

"The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal."

The smug remarks from almost every National attendee was how cards were so ridiculously overpriced. Just wait 'til its THEIR time to sell. The National vendors conduct their business just as they do on eBay. Price something nice very steep. Then negotiate with a serious buyer. As for someone who loves the card, but grimaces at the price and won't even ask about a counter offer---HERE THEN is the stupid one.

---Brian Powell

Thanks Brian. I hate to get into that discussion, as I completely understand the frustration of ebay buyers and naturally, I don't want to alienate them; however, many of the ones who post here are making no effort to understand what's happening. I think if you are going to complain about ebay in this manner, you should also post your ebay handle. That way the sellers who you dislike so much can save you the problem of accidentally bidding in their auctions.

As a buyer, you can filter out sellers whose prices you dislike - it is very easy. I use that feature to filter out keyword spammers, but you can do it for any seller.

[bnorth]

I must be in the minority. I think eBay/paypal fees are very reasonable. Try opening a real store once and see what your expenses are. Trust me you will no longer complain about eBay fees.

My one slight complaint on eBay fees are that they are a flat % now. I liked the old step system. On higher end items the fees should be slightly lower than on cheap items under $100.

I have never understood those that go into a brick and mortar store and think that eBay prices are what they should pay. eBay is a crap shoot at best, in the B/M store you get to look at and touch the actual merchandise you are going to buy. This goes for everything not just our hobby of cards.

[HerbK]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So here is some wisdom for you: not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that ALL BIN cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what?

Yes... thank you for that.

I think what the OP was referring to - and what I agree with, were cards that were being listed at 4x and 5x their value. If a $1000 card is listed for $5000, there is little chance that a mutual agreement can be made with that level of disparity. There's no "meeting in the middle" with a $4000 differential. No one is inferring that your mark-up should be "five cents".... that's silly. But if you think you're going to be successful with all your cards being marked up 500% ... guess what?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HerbK

Yes... thank you for that.

I think what the OP was referring to - and what I agree with, were cards that were being listed at 4x and 5x their value. If a $1000 card is listed for $5000, there is little chance that a mutual agreement can be made with that level of disparity. There's no "meeting in the middle" with a $4000 differential. No one is inferring that your mark-up should be "five cents".... that's silly. But if you think you're going to be successful with all your cards being marked up 500% ... guess what?

You are welcome.

I used 'five cents' as an example - go re-read it if you don't understand my point. I don't need to guess about the effects of 500% mark-ups, as I don't condone it and I don't think it's a successful business model. You'll need to build a more reasonable straw man if you want to have a discussion.

[asoriano]

Yikes, that McGraw is overpriced and overgraded!

[HerbK]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I used 'five cents' as an example - go re-read it if you don't understand my point. I don't need to guess about the effects of 500% mark-ups, as I don't condone it and I don't think it's a successful business model. You'll need to build a more reasonable straw man if you want to have a discussion.

I totally understand your point.... you're the one who stated concerns about your mark-up being "five cents", not me. If you think your profits should be somewhere in the area of say, 25% for example (which would be reasonable), then you should have stated that.

The discussion is a valid one .... There's no logic whatsoever in listing cards (or anything for that matter) on eBay with a 500% mark-up. I know there's always a fool to occasionally pull the trigger ... but those are few and far between.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HerbK

I totally understand your point.... you're the one who stated concerns about your mark-up being "five cents", not me. If you think your profits should be somewhere in the area of say, 25% for example (which would be reasonable), then you should have stated that.

The discussion is a valid one .... There's no logic whatsoever in listing cards (or anything for that matter) on eBay with a 500% mark-up. I know there's always a fool to occasionally pull the trigger ... but those are few and far between.

You took my statement out of context, or I didn't explain it well. I said: "If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will)." My point being that EVEN if I only ask for a nickel profit, they still will rarely sell for the asking price.

Ebay has evolved to a point that some (if not most) buyers assume a mark-up above market value, that might not even exist. From my example, maybe it is only 5 cents, but the buyer is assuming it is much higher. Most simply aren't educated about values - this forum is certainly an exception.

Edited to add: I really don't want to get into my own selling strategy much, but I think that it is imperative for sellers to have a very good understanding of current market values for the items they are selling. If you don't know what your items are worth, and you only have a small number listed, your mark-up has to be higher than a high-volume dealer who is a smart buyer and understands market values. But everyone has a different business model. I remember being outbid a few years ago on a beautiful T205 set. I went as high as I possibly could, given my pricing strategy and overhead. But I later saw the set broken out on ebay by a huge dealer who had thousands of items listed. These cards were marked up much higher than I would have felt comfortable with, but the seller is a bright guy, so it must be working for him. Basically, if you have enough inventory and enough capital, you can do anything you want, but that's true of anything.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by runscott

super-old topic, but i'll play: If you were buying cards on ebay ten years ago, i'm sure you remember the great straight auctions, especially when collections or finds were auctioned off at the same time. We would hang out in chat and talk about them. Very exciting stuff.

Ebay purposely changed all that, so now you have high-priced bin's.

So here is some wisdom for you: Not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that all bin cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If i price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will). I'll get low-balled by a certain percentage on every one of them. The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal. So to play the game, sellers overprice their cards, buyers then respond with a discounted offer, and the cards sell.

No, sellers aren't looking for a "rube" - they are looking to stay in business. If i showed you my accounting for this year you would stop whining.

+100

[kailes2872]

Ebay purposely changed all that, so now you have high-priced BIN's.

I see this mentioned a lot and I was just wondering if someone could add some color to the comment? When I post something that doesn't sell, they always recommend that I price it at $0.99 in auction format.

Did they change their fee structure to encourage BINs vs auction? I know that I have recently posted as Auctions (basically at BIN starting prices) because the $.30 insertion fee was waived - but I will will be the first to admit that I am a newbie on the selling side of Ebay and am probably not maximizing value.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Here is another problem with the "buyer" or "non-dealer" thinking. They want what they want, when they want at flea market or straight auction price. As someone who sells on eBay, I am constantly looking for high quality items at a lower than expected price that I think I can make money on. I am not shopping for exact items like most buyers do. Sellers often get emails from buyers stating, "I just saw a similar item for $". My response is why didn't you buy it then. Buyers also don't always take condition in to account for memorabilia. They want NRMt items for Vg or Ex price. They also want to want to take credit for all the searching, finding, knowledge, and connections that sellers have made for years and not allow a seller to profit from that work or knowledge.

I would also like to comment on someone's previous assertion that eBay is a place to find deals. eBay marketing would definitely disagree with you. eBay markets itself as an online shopping marketplace. They want to encourage shoppers to come on there for their birthday purchase for their father or an item they cannot find somewhere else. I sell a lot of items to people buying gifts for someone else that are absolutely elated to find the item that their special person has always talked about, etc. That is the customer eBay wants, not a bunch of collectors like us.

I have said this before many times, if you don't like what someone has or what it's priced, strike up a conversation with them and ask for a lower price. If they don't want to sell it for that price just move on. Jason

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I would also like to comment on someone's previous assertion that eBay is a place to find deals. eBay marketing would definitely disagree with you. eBay markets itself as an online shopping marketplace. They want to encourage shoppers to come on there for their birthday purchase for their father or an item they cannot find somewhere else. I sell a lot of items to people buying gifts for someone else that are absolutely elated to find the item that their special person has always talked about, etc. That is the customer eBay wants, not a bunch of collectors like us.

And that is a crucial mistake that eBay marketing is making. Because the public does not view eBay as a place to pay full price due to the inherent risk of buying from someone you only know by an eBay name. If you saw a card that you wanted on eBay for $1000 from some seller you didn't know, but you could buy the same card at REA for $1000 (counting the buyer's premium), you would probably buy the REA card because it would seem safer.

As I said, eBay is indeed a place for items that you can't easily get somewhere else. But if what is being sold is something that can be found elsewhere, it needs to be sold at a discount on eBay or no one is going to buy it. When eBay tries to be another Amazon, it loses.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

And that is a crucial mistake that eBay marketing is making. Because the public does not view eBay as a place to pay full price due to the inherent risk of buying from someone you only know by an eBay name. If you saw a card that you wanted on eBay for $1000 from some seller you didn't know, but you could buy the same card at REA for $1000 (counting the buyer's premium), you would probably buy the REA card because it would seem safer.

As I said, eBay is indeed a place for items that you can't easily get somewhere else. But if what is being sold is something that can be found elsewhere, it needs to be sold at a discount on eBay or no one is going to buy it. When eBay tries to be another Amazon, it loses.

That isn't true for all sellers and it isn't the perception of all buyers. Many buyers would much rather use the simplicity of paying through Paypal, and get their card quickly, as opposed to having to pay with a check and wait 3-4 weeks. I'm sure there is still a lot of trailer park mentality on ebay, but ebay's goal has been to move away from that, and it actually has been successful.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I have had dealers on ebay tell me they have "200k+ etc of inventory" and do not need to sell" So im basing it out of experience and if a card is listed for a year, they obviously arent selling it at market price or have a real interest to sell. Proof is in the pudding.

Not saying all dealers of course.

The dealer who is telling you he does not need to sell, is probably responding to some needling you are giving him - we are only hearing one side of this. Dealers can be offended by lowball offers and say rude things. Embarrassed to say that I have responded unprofessionally at times when needled by a buyer who is trying to guilt me into giving him a deal, or who is simply trolling out of boredom.

Also, the fact that it's been on ebay for a year, does not mean it isn't at 'market price'. Items get stale and if something has been up on ebay for a long time as a BIN, the perception is sometimes that it is priced above market value. Or there might be legitimate buyer who feel like it's been available for a year, so it will be available 3-6 months later when they have the cash. The same item could be removed and placed in an auction outside of ebay, and sell for more. I often take 'stale' items and run them as straight auctions. Often they sell for more than my BIN price, even on ebay.

There are a lot of dynamics going on on ebay, which is why seller strategies vary so much. I recently put a bunch of autographs up at prices such that the offers I get would be hopefully be right about at my cost. Guess what? The offers are coming in below my cost. Could be that I paid too much, but it could also be that if I marked them up another 20-30%, the offers would come in either at cost or slightly above. Ebay can really be a head-game at times.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Auction is a true market price. there are some high and lows at auction but thats the market. If you have something listed for a year its not at market price in the format its listed when selling a card. Simple as that.

When need to sell at market price, people usually dont have a year to wait around to sell the card. I think most people would agree if it takes more than 3 or so months to sell its not a market price for the time period. I have used a house analogy a few time. Yes if own a house you can list it for years and maybe sell it 4 years later, but houses go stale after 60-90s and are not considered to be at 'market price' Just because you sell an item 4 years later doesnt mean it was at market price the first year. People die in a year. Sellers and Buyers die.

You have a 1952 Mantle topps in 1965 in EX conditon and you want $17,000. Its not market price at the time. It is market price potentially now but who cares if you are dead by then. Thats why market price is for a more limited time period than a year traditionally for collectibles.

Also I think when Dealers say 'they dont need to sell' combined with the fact the card is listed for years. I dont think its in response to low ball offers. I think its they really dont need to sell...at market price...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Auction is a true market price. there are some high and lows at auction but thats the market. If you have something listed for a year its not at market price in the format its listed when selling a card. Simple as that.

When need to sell at market price, people usually dont have a year to wait around to sell the card. I think most people would agree if it takes more than 3 or so months to sell its not a market price for the time period. I have used a house analogy a few time. Yes if own a house you can list it for years and maybe sell it 4 years later, but houses go stale after 60-90s and are not considered to be at 'market price' Just because you sell an item 4 years later doesnt mean it was at market price the first year. People die in a year. Sellers and Buyers die.

You have a 1952 Mantle topps in 1965 in EX conditon and you want $17,000. Its not market price at the time. It is market price potentially now but who cares if you are dead by then. Thats why market price is for a more limited time period than a year traditionally for collectibles.

Also I think when Dealers say 'they dont need to sell' combined with the fact the card is listed for years. I dont think its in response to low ball offers. I think its they really dont need to sell...at market price...

I don't agree with almost anything you stated above. The analogy of cards and houses is not a valid one. The strategy of selling using BIN's involves more than just pricing. It's true that if you only have a few items for sale, you need to turn them over very quickly. If you have more capital and can afford to have 500 items up for sale, as opposed to 10, 50, 100, even 200, then your volume, especially if it covers many categories, is going to cause ALL items to get more views, which means more sales. Every time I put 20 items up for sale on ebay, I get offers on other items that may have been sitting around for months. And if you add items consistently, the older items are going to have an even better chance of selling, again - because of the new views;i.e-people see your new items and then view 'by seller' and find your others.

And that is if you do nothing with the 'stale' items except let them just sit.

But think whatever you want. We've heard these complaints hundreds of times here - you have plenty of company.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Understood about BINs

but i am not against Dealers charging a lot. If you look at my posts i am quite happy because it allows non-dealors who are just hobbyist to get more for their cards than if the dealer prices were more competitive.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Understood about BINs

but i am not against Dealers charging a lot. If you look at my posts i am quite happy because it allows non-dealors who are just hobbyist to get more for their cards than if the dealer prices were more competitive.

That's a good point. The only problem is that I really believe the high-volume fixed-price dealers get more for their cards because of volume. Basically, the chances are better that someone is looking for on of the cards up for sale - they don't have to sell ALL of them. A hobbyist, on the other hand, has far fewer cards up for sale at any one time, so the odds of finding someone who is looking for one of their specific cards, and willing to pay higher prices, are much lower.

The volume thing is critical. I have a volume number and a 'price above cost' percentage that I always try to stay at - if I keep the two going, sales roll in at a rate that I need. If I had a lower volume number I would have to turn my inventory over quicker, which would be more difficult because I would be missing the views generated by higher volumes. And to turn inventory over quicker, I would have to accept lower prices...meaning less profit. The ebay formula rewards high volume and fixed-prices. It drives out the low-volume guys any way you look at it.

[Luke]

Yeah, I don't really agree either. An auction will establish market price only if all potential buyers are aware of the auction. You can say that REA establishes market prices, but the same is not true for ebay. All the time I see an auction end at $X, and then the same card is re-listed by mikedenero or someone like that at $2X, and it sells eventually.

I think true market value is somewhere in the middle. An auction on ebay will never maximize an item's sale price, but it may be best for the seller to move it right away. If a seller has a large inventory, they can afford to have that card sit at a higher price point until it sells (pretty much what Scott was saying I think). If I need to sell a card right away, I can't ask for the latest price that mikedenero just got for that same card (I could ask, but I'll hear crickets). One of the reasons some cards sell after 3 months at a higher price than auction results would indicate is that sometimes it took that long for the buyer to see it.

[Runscott]

Well-said Steve. Trying to think like someone running a business, when you want to buy something at a bargain, is impossible

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[Runscott]

Glyn, that is well-stated. 'Market value' is a tough concept for most collectors.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[tschock]

Another way to look at it is that rare baseball cards are not commodities, in the classical economics sense. Because of a niche market, auction and any sale prices are "skeptible" as well. Your best indicator as to current value is trends (as we all probably realize). The longer the trend, the more reasonably accurate. Where that falls short is near the change point of a trend.

That being said... it also seems that there are those trying to justify prices based on "staying in business" rather than considering the possibility that supply is up or demand is down within the niche market (among other things). It is very probably that you will not see ANY profit on certain cards and even remotely possible that you won't see any profit on ANY cards. There are many ways to go out of business.

Keep in mind that even "museum" pieces will probably sell some day. Maybe for the crazy 100% asking price, maybe the seller making the deal for the reasonable 50% off, or maybe the seller's heirs taking pennies on the dollar after the seller's gone.

The only true value of a card is what it sold for on that particular day. Anything beyond that is mere speculation on the behalf of the buyer or the seller.

[JollyElm]

I know this a post-war card, but I had to show it. A 1960 common--as common as can be--that keeps being put up by this same seller. How do you not laugh when you see it????!!!!

The BIN is $13 for a card you can find a thousand of for two bucks or less in an ebay search. $13!!!!!!!!!!! Plus…here's where it gets great…$7 for shipping!!!!! Seven frickin' bucks to ship this useless card. Oh, and did I mention there is writing/typing all over it??? $20 for a card you can pick up in any brick and mortar shop for less than a buck and he continues to list it time and time again and refuses to respond to my questions asking, "Why??"

$_57.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Topps-D...item35de3341ab

[Peter_Spaeth]

He's already said why.

1960 Topps Dave Philley Philadelphia Phillies #52 Baseball Card

Sharp, Great Color, Good Corners, Great Collectiable, A Great Investiment

Card in Good Shape No refunds, no international ship.

Compared at $80.00 Our Price $10.00 plus s/h

[byrone]

“There’s wholesale, there’s retail, and there’s fairytale”

[Econteachert205]

Price is truth

Ie

1. If you list an item on ebay with a 7 day auction you are more likely to gain a higher realized price than a 3 day auction

2. If you use rea you are more likely to gain a higher realized price than a local auctionzip listing.

3. If you list an auction with no reserve and there is a duration there is varying odds as to how many interested parties will engage in bidding

In all cases the price accurately reflects the market

Houses in 2007 sold for crazy money. Houses in 2011 sold for next to nothing. Both were accurate reflections of the markets. Like Henry Hazlitt said Americans are like Dr Jekyll and mr Hyde. We want the best deals as consumers and the highest prices as producers. I accept that in selling my cards that I have never sold for a "low price" or "high price". Only that I sold cards which reflected whatever the particular market I sold them in performed at at that time.


But I do agree that some people are just listing cards where no market will ever support them.

[4815162342]

[glynparson]

by definition has two components what the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept. At an auction with no reserve and a nominal minimum bid the seller's acceptance to any offer is taken out of the equation.