Show...me...your print variations!

[savedfrommyspokes]

Recently noticed this recurring blue mark near Sammy's left arm

[irv]

Originally Posted by Sliphorn

The right version has a red line at the bottom. It does not appear to be a miscut as there is white under the red line.

I just looked and also noticed a red mark at the bottom of my Boyer card too. It is at the very bottom and is hard to see, which leaves me to believe, the cutter actually hit the mark.

I will have to check my other cards more carefully as I wasn't aware any of my cards had this mark.

[ALR-bishop]

Good follow up Dale

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Good follow up Dale

No problem, Al.

I quickly looked the cards that were in the same stack as my, Boyer, (same series range) and didn't notice any others. I will, time permitting, look at my others later to see if I have some other anomalies that I didn't originally notice?

[Sliphorn]

Originally Posted by irv

I just looked and also noticed a red mark at the bottom of my Boyer card too. It is at the very bottom and is hard to see, which leaves me to believe, the cutter actually hit the mark.

I will have to check my other cards more carefully as I wasn't aware any of my cards had this mark.

Here is an eBay listing from Dean's Cards for one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-2...8AAOSwyDxXgNng

[savedfrommyspokes]

Even more interesting is the "price change" Dean's did on this card on 7.7.....less than 2 days after the initial post about this card.....probably just a complete coincidence though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...p2047675.l2569


FWIW, my copy has the red line also:

[ALR-bishop]

What was the price before ?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Sliphorn

Here is an eBay listing from Dean's Cards for one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-2...8AAOSwyDxXgNng

I rechecked all of my cards and didn't see anything remotely close to what the Boyer card looks like but I did notice a couple cards with some slight printing marks.
One is above Joe Presko's cap and the other is beside Joe Dobson near the border and near his right cheek. Both marks are also red.

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Even more interesting is the "price change" Dean's did on this card on 7.7.....less than 2 days after the initial post about this card.....probably just a complete coincidence though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...p2047675.l2569


FWIW, my copy has the red line also:

What was, Dean's previous price?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

What was the price before ?

The listing's change screen does not show what the previous price was (could have been higher previously, but highly doubtful). DC has a VG copy of this card listed on COMC at $50.25, this copy is a VG-EX for $87.50...their website offers the same VG-EX card for $76.

[irv]

Decided to raise my Boyer a bit off the bottom of the holder so the red mark would be easier to see.

Edit: Didn't make much of a difference.

[Sliphorn]

[QUOTE=irv;1560294]I rechecked all of my cards and didn't see anything remotely close to what the Boyer card looks like but I did notice a couple cards with some slight printing marks.
One is above Joe Presko's cap and the other is beside Joe Dobson near the border and near his right cheek. Both marks are also red.



I can see the Dobson red marks and have them on mine as well so are they an UER?

Presto is a mystery as I cannot see any marks near his cap. i see the blue dot and mine has it. Can you please clarify this one?

Thanks.

[Sliphorn]

[QUOTE=Sliphorn;1560669][QUOTE=irv;1560294]I rechecked all of my cards and didn't see anything remotely close to what the Boyer card looks like but I did notice a couple cards with some slight printing marks.
One is above Joe Presko's cap and the other is beside Joe Dobson near the border and near his right cheek. Both marks are also red.



I can see the Dobson red marks and have them on mine as well so are they an UER?

Presto is a mystery as I cannot see any marks near his cap. i see the blue dot and mine has it. Can you please clarify this one?

UPDATE:

The Dobson marks ARE a variation as the norm does not have them. Batters box has several with them on eBay.

[irv]

[QUOTE=Sliphorn;1560669]

Originally Posted by irv

I rechecked all of my cards and didn't see anything remotely close to what the Boyer card looks like but I did notice a couple cards with some slight printing marks.
One is above Joe Presko's cap and the other is beside Joe Dobson near the border and near his right cheek. Both marks are also red.



I can see the Dobson red marks and have them on mine as well so are they an UER?

Presto is a mystery as I cannot see any marks near his cap. i see the blue dot and mine has it. Can you please clarify this one?

Thanks.

I likely wrote that wrong?
Dobson's is the only card with the red dots/marks and the only other mark that I also noticed with my cards was the blue dot/speck near Presto's cap.
His card has no red marks/spots that I noticed?

Sorry, what is an UER?

[ALR-bishop]

Uncorrected error. You will see that listed for cards in the guides when for example the photo on the card is not the person named on the card, which has happened a lot. When the manufacturer issues a corrected card the result is a true variation. When it goes uncorrected it is a UER.

All of the Prestos I have looked at seem to have the dot. Does someone have it without ?

Is this another oddity for Presko...bottom border

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Uncorrected error. You will see that listed for cards in the guides when for example the photo on the card is not the person named on the card, which has happened a lot. When the manufacturer issues a corrected card the result is a true variation. When it goes uncorrected it is a UER.

All of the Prestos I have looked at seem to have the dot. Does someone have it without ?

Is this another oddity for Presko...bottom border

Thanks, Al.

I looked over my cards again yesterday fairly carefully and the only ones I found with anomalies were the cards I posted. My Boyer is the only card in my collection (over 120) that has such a noticeable mark on it, but with that being said, I wasn't even aware of it until it was posted here.

Your Dobson above is one I have never seen before.

[Sliphorn]

Notice that the letters on the pinker version at left dive below the bottom border and are red. This also results in a pinkish line at the top of the left one.

[swarmee]

1960 Topps #276 - Ken McBride
Courtesy of COMC.com

Red squiggle on left side of 1960 #276 Ken McBride.
6 of the 60 cards currently for sale on COMC have it.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Sliphorn

Notice that the letters on the pinker version at left dive below the bottom border and are red. This also results in a pinkish line at the top of the left one.

Yep, the red is out of register. All the red is printed a bit low.

[ALR-bishop]

That card like many in the set can be found with noticeably different background coloring

[irv]

Originally Posted by Sliphorn

Notice that the letters on the pinker version at left dive below the bottom border and are red. This also results in a pinkish line at the top of the left one.

Noticed mine is OK.

I have heard of few anomalies with the 52 Topps cards but I never knew there were so many.

I enjoy these types threads about the 52 Topps cards, and my biggest mystery, that was asked some time ago, is the Herman/Williams card the same guy?

Edit: After looking at further pictures, I believe that is Billy Herman on his card and not Dick William. Could be wrong, but some of these pics, imo, clear up the mystery.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=billy...qbncf6dZ_NM%3A

[ALR-bishop]

This is post 80 but wanted some feedback on it. Was this a card Topps doctored to correct it, or just a print defect that faded

[Sliphorn]

This is recurring with the red dot at the top as I had one and just bought a better one on eBay. I noticed that there are at least four on eBay and one on COMC with this.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Sliphorn

This is recurring with the red dot at the top as I had one and just bought a better one on eBay. I noticed that there are at least four on eBay and one on COMC with this.

Nice find on the recurring print spot....just noticed this 58 Albie Pearson card with a recurring yellow "print spot" between the "l" and "b" in Albie.

[ALR-bishop]

We should randomly pick a few cards from some Topps sets, assign one or two to the regulars in here and see if we can find a variant for each card. Of course as a retired guy that seems like a good use of time to me

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

We should randomly pick a few cards from some Topps sets, assign one or two to the regulars in here and see if we can find a variant for each card. Of course as a retired guy that seems like a good use of time to me

I agree, Al. Great idea!

Good luck.

[irv]

Never heard of this one before? Has anyone else?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-TOPPS-F...IAAOSwcldUaPUd

[ALR-bishop]

Yes, it has been recognized for awhile among 52 collectors. Some feel it should be a true variation rather than a recurring print defect. After it gained hobby recognition prices zoomed intitially but have have come down some as more have surfaced. It is scarce but not rare in white back. However, it can apparently also be found among the rare gray backs, and in that format is indeed rare. I think one of the gray backs was posted in one of the 1952 threads in here.

The tiger can be found with different amounts of red in the tongue in some versions. Bob Lemke's mentions it in his blog and in a SCD article

Irv-- if you did an internet search for "Topps 1952 House yellow tiger" you will find some info on it. if you add net 54 to the search you will probably find the prior threads

Bob Lemke's blog entry on it was May 8 of 2011

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Yes, it has been recognized for awhile among 52 collectors. Some feel it should be a true variation rather than a recurring print defect. After it gained hobby recognition prices zoomed intitially but have have come down some as more have surfaced. It is scarce but not rare in white back. However, it can apparently also be found among the rare gray backs, and in that format is indeed rare. I think one of the gray backs was posted in one of the 1952 threads in here.

The tiger can be found with different amounts of red in the tongue in some versions. Bob Lemke's mentions it in his blog and in a SCD article

Irv-- if you did an internet search for "Topps 1952 House yellow tiger" you will find some info on it. if you add net 54 to the search you will probably find the prior threads

Bob Lemke's blog entry on it was May 8 of 2011

Thanks, Al.

Just when I think I have learned almost everything about 52 Topps cards, another tid bit arises!

In your opinion, is the E-Bay one I posted/linked overpriced or is that a fair price? No way I could afford anyways, but I am curious.

I will be sure to do a search for sure, Al.

Thanks again for the info.

Edit: Found the Net54 post right at the top.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=150558

And also another great article explaining it further.
http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...e?itemid=37670

[ALR-bishop]

Seller is pitching it as a transition or variation of a variation where the tiger is yellow but the tongue has some red. In some versions the red tongue is very noticeable. I think you would get different responses from different 52 collectors about how many different versions of this card exist. The transition cards also lend to the debate about variation versus print defect.

I think if you decide later you want a yellow tiger you can get one at a much, much, much cheaper price, especially if you are not particular on condition or degree of redness in tongue or a gray back version.

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Seller is pitching it as a transition or variation of a variation where the tiger is yellow it the tongue has some red. In some versions the red tongue is very noticeable. I think you would get different responses from different 52 collectors about how many different versions of this card exist. The transition cards also lend to the debate about variation versus print defect.

I think if you decide later you want a yellow tiger you can get one at a much, much, much cheaper price, especially if you are not particular on condition or degree of redness in tongue or a gray back version.

Thanks again, Al.

I edited my post right at the same time you posted this one.
Learned of a couple more cards I need to check out in the thread as well.

I would very much like to have one, or more of these print variation/defect cards but at the prices they usually command, I don't think I will be purchasing one in the very near future. If I can find one on the cheap (wonder how many I looked at not even knowing about the yellow tiger?) then I'll definitely give it some serious consideration, however.

Guess it's time to dig further into these 52 Topps cards as it seems new info about comes up all the time. ( at least to me)

Thanks again, Al.

[Sliphorn]

130 Bauer
141 Jay
184 Bailey
190 Herbert
216 Sima
218 Marsh
224 Weik
239 Skowron

[MikeGarcia]

...Hank Arft's mounted knight appears to be a very young Sir Johnny Cash....the nose of his steed also missed the final application.....I love this thread, thanks to whoever thought it up...

...a variation ? I don't know much about the 1952 Topps St. Louis Browns...

..

[ALR-bishop]

...fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed

[MikeGarcia]

.....There's swarthy , there's dark-complected and then there's Vernon Law's sunburned peach-pink pirate ...

..the '52 Topps print variation posts will never end....

..good.

.

[irv]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

...Hank Arft's mounted knight appears to be a very young Sir Johnny Cash....the nose of his steed also missed the final application.....I love this thread, thanks to whoever thought it up...

...a variation ? I don't know much about the 1952 Topps St. Louis Browns...

..

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

.....There's swarthy , there's dark-complected and then there's Vernon Law's sunburned peach-pink pirate ...

..the '52 Topps print variation posts will never end....

..good.

.

I'll to check mine also to see if they are similar/same?

What is up with the Blue PSA slabs?

[MikeGarcia]

..." P G S "----from 1990's to early 2000's .......I think the latest card I ever saw in a PGS holder was 2004..... I'll look deeper into it. There were lots of grading companies at one time....probably some old threads about long-gone graders but I've never quite figured out the " search" on 54..

..

[irv]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..." P G S "----from 1990's to early 2000's .......I think the latest card I ever saw in a PGS holder was 2004..... I'll look deeper into it. There were lots of grading companies at one time....probably some old threads about long-gone graders but I've never quite figured out the " search" on 54..

..

Too Funny! I am picking up my new glasses tomorrow.

Thanks for the info.

[irv]

Lots of variations with these cards just like you said, Mike.

Note the different Pirates, pronounced and un-pronounced teeth on the Indians, some dark horsemen as well, and lastly, some different looking Tigers.

Still looking for other anomalies/defects/UER's, which, I now think I'll have no trouble finding.

[MikeGarcia]

....it's actually tough to find two cards of different players with the same tiger colorations...


...Here's four , then I've got more ...

.

[MikeGarcia]

...if we can get these all recognized by The Catalogue , we could get the "52 Master Set up towards four digits....

..note the only one eyebrow on Ted Gray's tiger..

..

[irv]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

....it's actually tough to find two cards of different players with the same tiger colorations...


...Here's four , then I've got more ...

.

I agree.

Just looked at a few more of mine and noticed my Rojek also sports the red horseman. I also noticed the elephant on the Joe Tipton card is different than than on the Wright card.

And hardly any blue on the Giants logo of Williams compared to the Thompson card.

My gut tells me I could find a ton more of these but the most consistent cards that I have noticed so far, seem to the Boston Red Sox sock.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

I agree.

Just looked at a few more of mine and noticed my Rojek also sports the red horseman. I also noticed the elephant on the Joe Tipton card is different than than on the Wright card.

And hardly any blue on the Giants logo of Williams compared to the Thompson card.

My gut tells me I could find a ton more of these but the most consistent cards that I have noticed so far, seem to the Boston Red Sox sock.

You need to compare cards of the same player. These comparing logos on different players cards are not variations in my opinion.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You need to compare cards of the same player. These comparing logos on different players cards are not variations in my opinion.

You have a point but I have very few (3?) dupes to compare.

What I have noticed, which makes them variations to me, is that some of these cards, although the players are different, come from the same series.

I could easily understand variations between say a Pafko and a high numbered player, (311 up) from the same team having a variation due to different printing times, but it becomes questionable to me when you see these variations in the same series.

[irv]

Found 3 cards very close to one another number wise and noticed 3 different Tiger head colors/patterns.

Bnorth is correct, these aren't variations but rather anomalies, imo.

Due to however these cards were made/produced, the anomalies are quite common, and that is just looking at the cards I own.

[ALR-bishop]

If there are any really old Topps production guys out there they would probably get a chuckle seeing all the nuances we nut balls in here look for in all these cards

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

If there are any really old Topps production guys out there they would probably get a chuckle seeing all the nuances we nut balls in here look for in all these cards

No doubt! They are likely saying, these preppies, yuppies or citiots have no clue how things were back in the day, and they should just be damn lucky they even have these cards to look at!!

[savedfrommyspokes]

Found this Del card with the limited, but recurring full and partial smudge on left sleeve.....only 1 of each left on ebay/COMC

[ALR-bishop]

Larry-- this is similar to the defect I posted in 621. Are they a defect that faded and disappeared in print process or a correction ? . I think likely the former

[savedfrommyspokes]

Al, the first thought I had when I saw these dark and light variations of this Crandall card were the 71 Northrup card and the 78 Wills....IMO these two cards are examples of attempts (pathetic at best) by Topps to "fix" the print spot/mark. I have heard some indicate that the 71 Northrup smudge has varying degrees of darkness, but I have had numerous copies of either a dark or a light smudge , but none that were varying in shade or in between(just my experience though). The lack of a variance in the degrees of darkness of the spot/mark would indicate to me that someone at Topps tried to fix the defect and was not completely successful.

So, without having seen any other copies of the Crandall with varying degrees of darkness, it would be tough to say if it was a defect that faded or a poor attempt at a correction.

[ALR-bishop]

These are my only 3 Northrup versions