Vote!!!

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

"Here come 'da judge..........."

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Oh, sure. So it's MY fault.

-Al

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Posted By: David Atkatz

<< I have never insulted your children or your wife(s) as I never inquired into even the existence of them.>>

Bullsh*t, Jeff. Let's quote you again.

"David, two adopted kids? I hope Child Services is keeping a close watch."

"David, I wasn't commenting on the generalized abuse rate of adoptive parents; I was commenting on one seemingly psychologically imbalanced parent with anger and jealousy issues who somehow got past the MMPI on the road to adoption."

And then, of course, there was the "over and under" on how many times I may have been divorced.

Yeah, Jeff. You leave families and implied family relationships out the same way you strive to protect all our children by keeping high-level drug dealers behind bars.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Uh, David -- those insults were directed at you. I'm sorry you missed that as I thought it was pretty clear.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Those remarks were designed to paint me as abusing my children. Nothing less.

I think most here would consider that over the line.

So what part of the concept of "family relationship" don't you understand, counselor?


I think I've made it pretty clear who you really are, Jeff.

And I've used nothing besides your own words and your own choice of accomplishments to do so.

No anonymous quotes from kids, and, above all, no name calling.

(Well, I `did say you were "selfish.")

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Speaking of TBall, my twins tball team won the fall championship in our league. Their trophies were almost as big as them. It was a great and exhausting season. The best part is, they still want to play.

marty

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Posted By: Richard S. Simon

I think this "debate" between Jeff and David has gotten to the point where we have to take the Burr-Hamilton solution to this. It has gotten a tad personal as did Burr and Hamilton so:
Sabers, pistols, machetes or M-16's gentlemen?
And to the rest of the board,,, these men will need seconds, any volunteers?
=

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Marty, they actually keep score in your T-Ball league?

My boy with his first trophy

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- your son looks just like his dad!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Except for the missing teeth part it's close...oh and he has a much better head of hair than I do.

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Posted By: Richard S. Simon

Dan - the best thing in my life are my children. Enjoy the years now, they grow up so fast. My son works for ESPN, head researcher on Baseball Tonight (wonder where he got his love for baseball from?) and my daughter is currently working on Life On Mars, a new ABC show. I often wonder where did the time go?
=

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: barrysloate

Teeth and hair come and go! I have lots of teeth, but not much hair.

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Posted By: GeorgeC

Dan!
Stay the course... you already know what this thread needs!

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Posted By: Anonymous

please keep it alive and well. thank you.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Hear me now and thank me later.

I could spend all day at this site listening to the beauty that IS the cowbell.

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Cowbell_Sounds_clip.aspx

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Posted By: barrysloate

I always thought I needed more cowbell, but this thread has certainly given me a lifetime's supply.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Dan,

They kept the scoreboard OFF until the playoffs started and then they turned it on. One thing we do in our league that I like a lot is (coach) pitch to the kids. The kids get 3 pitches, if they don't hit the ball we put it on a tee. My son Jacob (4 years old) was hitting the ball off the coaches pitch by the time the season was over. It was a thrill...

This picutre was taken with my crappy phone camera. It was a bit chilly that night.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

LOL, David, yeah you sure showed who I am!

By the way, my kids did great in Tee-ball today -- and I didn't mention to them your suggestion that some of my drug-dealing clients might deal drugs to them someday. I think I'll keep that to myself, thanks.

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Posted By: dennis

lets ban political posts & posters on this board.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If there are any Jets fans in the house they are leading at halftime 40-0. Has anyone ever heard of such a wild score at the half?

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

with Brett Favre.......anything is possible.........

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think it's the third highest halftime lead in NFL history.

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Posted By: jay wolt

"with Brett Favre.......anything is possible........."

Tom - no! Playing the Rams, anything is possible.
They've had 4 turnovers in the first half.
I've seen High School teams perform better.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

<<I didn't mention to them your suggestion that some of my drug-dealing clients might deal drugs to them someday. I think I'll keep that to myself, thanks.>>

It wasn't meant for them to hear. It was meant for you to hear.

You're sure there's no possibility whatsoever that those high-level marijuana dealers you saved from firearms charges might supply the grass that your kids may someday try? And even if your kids don't ever experiment with drugs, do I really have to tell you that those dealers are supplying other parent's kids? (Let's not even mention the coke and ecstasy dealers you've kept on the streets.)

There's a great Arthur Miller play, on Broadway right now, called "All My Sons."

I suggest you go see it.

I'm finished responding to you. You're hardly worth it.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

David, actually your last post does present some of the difficulties a criminal defense attorney faces. It is not easy to see some of the mayhem caused by our clients and not wonder about the victims and society in general. But since we have sworn to uphold an oath, to zealousy represent those charged with crimes, most of us manage to keep personal feelings out of the calculus. Those that do not are ineffective; those that tank a case on purpose, or do not put forth the greatest effort they are capable of of should, in my mind, be disbarred at the very least.

I can honestly say that in 18 years of practice I can count on one hand the clients I have had that were not happy with my representation, win or lose. I pride myself in that because when one is accused of a crime oftentimes he feels as if the entire world is against him -- save his lawyer. It's thrilling to provide hope and a defense to those least valued by our society. As I said in a previous post, if the system was run by you, we'd be living in Iran or Saudi Arabia. I would just tank a case on purpose and the government would have its way with criminal defendants, period. You worry about the poor lower classes but you have no empathy for those that perhaps grow up in less than ideal circumstances and find themselves involved in crime for reasons that are not always entirely their faults.

Now how about you tell me why is it that all of those students felt so badly abused by you? And why do you feel so badly bruised by the fact that they made those comments anonymously? All professor evaluations I filled out in college and law school were done anonymously...so that there would be no payback by the professors who were naturally in a position of greater power over the students. And why is it that such a large percentage of decent, open-minded, vulnerable, non-criminal college students could feel so badly abused by you? And instead of even showing any possible bit of self-examination you simply blame it on their youth. Nice.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

I don't feel bruised that they made those comments anonymously, Jeff. Not at all. Hell, I'm the one who posted the name of the website, so that anyone can go there. What I am pointing out, though, is that their statements should carry the same weight as hearsay testimony. There is a reason why it is, for the most part, inadmissible. Nor can witnesses testify anonymously. To be taken seriously, there must be some accountability. And, too, you are not looking at the evaluations that every student must submit, but rather those on an independent website, where the students who are the most pissed off are likely to post, while those who were satisfied may not feel any compelling reason to do so.

Physics is a very difficult subject. It requires hard work, and it requires a large amount of native aptitude. And it requires brutal (maybe the wrong choice of words) honesty. Some students deal with all that well, and some don't.

All of the quotes you posted are from students in the intro course, 90% of whom are pre-meds, and who, for the most part, would rather not have been forced to take physics, All many of them care about as far as physics is concerned, is doing well on the physics portion of the MCATS. I fully understand, and I do sympathize with them. But I tell them at the beginning that that is not what I am there to teach--that mine is not a Kaplan course. I am there to teach the skills, and the manner of thinking that a physicist must have, and that is what I stress. I can do it no other way; you see, I have pride in my work, and my discipline too, just as you do. Think of me as a "Professor Kingsfield" of physics. The students come in with a head full of mush, but they leave (some of them, at least) thinking like physicists.

But many don't. Some because they can't, but most who don't because they are unwilling to work as hard as one must. So they don't do well. That pisses people off. And at seventeen, the truth is that not many kids are mature enough to say "I didn't work as hard as I needed to," but would rather say that I'm an ******* for not giving them exactly what they wanted.

Now, that's not to say that I'm perfect, or can't be abrasive at times, or arrogant. Hey--I'm a smart-ass New York Jew.

But I've been doing physics long enough to know what is important, and what needs to be stressed, and how hard one must work.

You really ought to hear what some of my upper-level students have to say about me; students who want to be physicists, and who want to think (and enjoy thinking) that new, exciting way.

You point out that some of your clients who are convicted nevertheless appreciate how hard you worked for them, and understand that they themselves, not you, got them into the mess in the first place. That's a pretty mature attitude. I doubt whether very many of them are 17-18 years old.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

apparently Jeff IS worth it because you did respond..........nice responsbe by both........

Glad I took AP physics in High School and got to forgo it in college.......I didn't need anyone else killing my GPA freshman year. I did a good enough job of that as it was all by myself..........

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think these two guys are having an intervention.

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Posted By: JimB

Not to distract from this fascinating discussion, but I wonder if Crandall, since he so opposed to murder, being the black and white issue that it is, is also opposed to the Iraq war and the senseless murder of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. In fact, I would presume he is a pacifist.
JimB

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Posted By: JimB

P.S. I am just trying to support the opportunity this thread has for breaking the Net54 record.
JimB

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Jim, Haven't you realized by now that life that needs protecting begins at conception and ends at birth.

(And those are just the American lives.)

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Posted By: JimCXrandell

Bloomenthal--no you're not--you are being an a-hole like you always are.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Tom, I took two semesters of Physics in college, got two As, and don't remember the concepts in Physics 101 and 102 being very difficult or controversial; of course, I took two years of Physics in High School beforehand. I remember going to see my professor after completing the second sememster of Physics thinking I may want to major in it. He told me I was out of my mind. I remember his exact words were "Unless you want to be a Physicist you do not want to major in Physics." And with that I turned my back on Physics forever.