The oldest card on this board?

[earlybball]

Just thought I would share this CDV as it is a very early sports card with direct connections to baseball.

Below are what could be the oldest (photo) sports card known picturing the 1859 English Cricket 11 as they set off for their tour of the USA.

It was printed in New York in 1859 by Fred Lillywhite (organiser of the tour) and used as a ticket to entry to the England 11 vs the USA 11 series of games. This example was ticket number 284 to one of those games (simply hand numbered in pen). This process of using a numbered photo CDV for entry was well documented in Lillywhite's subsequent book of the tour. Lillywhite sold his photo tickets and other souvenirs from the tent pictured in scan 3.

This CDV predates the 1863 CDV’s for the St. Georges (of NY) Cricket Club photo card tickets by 4 years. Interestingly, some of those featured on the St Georges cards actually played in the featured 1859 tour of the England 11.

Harry Wright, San Wright and Crossley all feature in the box scores in the 1859 series (see scan 5 for box score). As a result, I believe that this CDV was the origin/predecessor of the 1863 St. Georges CDV’s with Lillywhite’s keen business acumen (using the photo cards as tickets) providing the example for the Wright’s to follow (copy) in 1863.

What makes the CDV even more significant is that it does have further baseball connection. During the 1859 cricket tour, the England 11 (pictured) took part in several baseball games vs the US team (at Elysian Fields) including the Wrights (see scan 6). I must say that the English team were rather derogatory regarding the game of baseball and its player’s merits.

As far as my research show, this is the only known and remaining example of this CDV. Lords Cricket Club (MCC) museum does have a larger print (and a few other similar prints in private hands) but this was published later in London following the England 11’s return from the USA. That version of course cannot be classified as a sports card either as it was not printed for commercial or promotional purposes like the CDV was.

[barrysloate]

That's a spectacular image and great research. There's an 1859 Harper's woodcut depicting an important cricket match- coincidentally we've been discussing it over on the memorabilia side. Is there a connection between the CdV and the woodcut?

Edited to say the color print you've included is from Harper's, but I was referring to the game in progress that's on the same page as the baseball print.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

There's an 1859 Harper's woodcut depicting an important cricket match ... but I was referring to the game in progress that's on the same page as the baseball print.

I posted a picture of the entire two page spread, with both the cricket and baseball games, earlier on this thread.

Doug

[barrysloate]

Thanks Doug. When the threads get long I usually forget what was posted at the beginning.

[earlybball]

Thanks Barry, James and Doug. The double page spread is cool.

Jimmy, have you seen another one of these previously?
On your question, Lillywhite hired a photographer to come on board (at Liverpool where the photo was taken)and the snaps went with him to the USA. He had planned this trip well before hand as a money making exercise. Before they started with the games, the group went on a site seeing tour while Lillywhite organised the tent and had the CDV's & other programs printed in NY. It's all in the book - every facet of the trip was covered in its 400 or so pages. If I have time I will try to dig out the page if you are interested.

- Jason

[19cbb]

Hi Jason, long time my friend, didn't know it was you when I first replied.

Yes, I've seen a couple of copies of the CDV and I own a larger format mounted albumen with the Hennah and publishers print caption on bottom.

I don't remember reading about Fred Lilly' printing programs and cdvs in New York when other fellas went sightseeing. I have the book and will check again.

Was it in Caffyn's book maybe?

Btw, I'm currently writing a blog post in relation to the '59 XI that I hope to have published by next tuesday.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by earlybball

As far as my research show, this is the only known and remaining example of this CDV.

Not the only one known example in CDV format.

One question: how could Lillywhite have sold this CDV in his tent while in the US when the photo was taken just before his sailing aboard the Liverpool?

Unless I'm missing something, this photo was published while the chaps were still playing abroad.

[earlybball]

Hey Jimmy, nice to make contact again - it has been a while my friend.

Thanks for the info on the CDV's - I have looked high and low for other examples. Your larger format version sounds like a stunning piece - any chance of posting some scans?

On the printing, let me check the book this weekend to see if I can find it. I did a bunch of research on this image when I first got it 3 or so years back and I made the notes about the printing then. I will dig it out unless my wife pops out No 3 this weekend (she is due next week). I will be catching up with you at this rate!

Your upcoming blog sounds fascinating -I look forward to reading it! What address can I find it on Tuesday?

Cheers, Jason

[FrankWakefield]

Barry is a card, one who's on this board. But Ted is older. Ted is older than dirt. Ted is the oldest card on this board.