More T205 stuff....the "ELUSIVE 20"....and more

[Wite3]

Movable type had to be used. They would not have redone entire plates to fix the Hoblitzell spelling errors, Gray with stats, etc. BUT the most convincing evidence is that the last line of the Mattern back appears as the stray type in the Moran variation. How does this happen you ask? Very easy...they just did not remove the last line of type from the blocks in the printing. I also think it lends credence that the set was printed in several different printings to fix the errors.
Joshua

[tedzan]

Hope to see some of you at the Oaks Philly Show this weekend.

And, let's see or talk about some more T205's.


T-Rex TED

[steve B]

Two replies together, plus some general comment. Followed by a nearly total rewrite and partial change of opinion.

Andrew - I wouldn't completely rule out moveable type. I had another look at the thread about Latham. It's unusual to have a bit of type low enough that it prints that light. And the varying size of the periods are more like an incompletely erased litho plate.

Joshua - I'll have to disagree about ALC not redoing an entire plate to repair an error. They repaired or replaced plates somewhat often during the preceeding 3 years while doing the T206s, and I can't see them making a major change in proceedure that would reduce quality.

Overall, there are some interesting things here.

Typography usually has a different quality that lithography. letters printed from moveable type typicaly show either indentations in the paper, or a ridge of ink at the edge where some squeezed out during the printing. Sometimes both. The T205s I have show the even ink distribution and lack of indents typical of offset lithography.
I'd love to see one showing the traits of typography.

BUT===The Latham thread is interesting. While T206s are thought to have been printed fronts first and there's a lot to support that, having an offset transfer under the front printing means backs first, at least partly.(Printing a color or two on the front then doignthe back and going back later to finish the front is possible) And If I'm not mistaken T205s are much tougher with blank backs.

I had written in an earlier draft "Typically litho shops won't have moveable type in the shop, nor a press to print with it. The proceses are so different it's not practical."
In attempting to find out if it might have been possible to print from type on a litho press of the era I came across the text of a book that clarified quite a bit!

http://www.archive.org/stream/offset...wuoft_djvu.txt

The book itself is a 1922 version of one originally released in 1917 to help printers in the change from working from stones to working with plates.
And it's very detailied technically.

The two sections I found immediately interesting were the section describing the making of transfers to lay out the plates, one of the bits of 1910's era printing that I knew of, but not in detail.

The other I think applies here, and describes making transfers from type!

So I'll readjust my thinking. I'm becoming convinced that the T205 backs were partly set in type, transfers made and stones or plates made from the transfers. Complex? Yes. A known practice at the time? Apparently so, but only in more skilled shops. And ALC would have had at least a few very skilled workers.

Steve B

[T205Guy]

I might be a little lost when it comes to printing processes, however, has anyone else noticed the Sweet Caporal backs on the "James Scott" card. It seems that the whole block of type for the players description is "wracked" top to bottom, but not side to side. Might this be an indication of movable type?? There are plenty to look at on Ebay...

Ed

[steve B]

Well that's interesting!

Yeah, that really seems as if they laid out the borders and brand info first, then transfered the type onto the stone separately. The sovereign that's up now is normal, but both red and black backs of SC have the text tilted.

Steve B

Also the names of players like Matty, Blackburne, and many others have names printed in a different style/size of text.