What is your definition of "RARE?"

[drc]

Scarcity is a matter of supply versus demand
Rarity is an absolute number.

A card can be scarce but not rare, and rare but not scarce (no demand).

[Matt]

Originally Posted by drc

Scarcity is a matter of supply versus demand
Rarity is an absolute number.

A card can be scarce but not rare, and rare but not scarce (no demand).

I'm curious why the coin terminology uses "scarce" as part of a scale that includes "rare." It seems they ignored the dictionary definition because they ran out of terms to describe 8 different levels of rarity. As David has pointed out, the two terms should not be part of the same scale as they describe different things (how many exist vs. how commonly they are available).

One other note - while rarity is a term related to the absolute number of something that exists, in conversation, it is often used as relative rarity, which is comparing the number of item A that exists to the number of item B. Relative to a 1985 Topps card, a T206 is rare. Relative to a V100, the T206 is not rare.

[drc]

When labeling something as rare you can include not just the card but the issue. One could say a modern 1 of 1s are not rare as there are 10,000 of them. Just So cards, on the other hand, are rare from any viewable angle.

Just an idea, not a statement of ideology. Disagree as you wish.

[drc]

I don't have a specific number as to what is rare. Though I'll know when I disagree with a seller who says something is rare.

I would call the T206 Honus Wagner rare.

Though every time this subject comes up, I give the exact same definition of scarce and no one listens to me. And I'll do it next time too. You know that Milton Friedman quote don't you?

[barrysloate]

Rob- the rarity scale, if it were ever to work in the baseball card hobby, would have to be based on documented examples, or those accepted from very reliable and credible sources. If somebody said, I know someone who has a Wagner but he wants to remain anonymous and doesn't want to provide a scan, it would not be counted in the population.

Peter- Alan Hagar was a coin dealer, after all.

It's unclear whether our hobby wants to employ a rarity scale, but it has worked successfully in the vintage coin market. One problem I see with it is it gives dealers yet another reason to charge even more. If a card was say a R5, be sure the price is going to be jacked up. So when you go to a show, instead of being offered a card at triple retail expect to pay quadruple.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's unclear whether our hobby wants to employ a rarity scale, but it has worked successfully in the vintage coin market. One problem I see with it is it gives dealers yet another reason to charge even more. If a card was say a R5, be sure the price is going to be jacked up. So when you go to a show, instead of being offered a card at triple retail expect to pay quadruple.

I believe this is precisely what the population reports have done. "This is only 1 of 11 at this grading tier with only 3 higher..."

David - per my post above, I agree 100% with your comments on the term "scarce." It isn't even a case of agree/disagree; you are quoting the definition of the word.

[betafolio2]

Originally Posted by Matt

I believe this is precisely what the population reports have done. "This is only 1 of 11 at this grading tier with only 3 higher..."

Matt, you nailed it! I see sellers on eBay using this information all the time to make their cards sound more exciting and desirable! But it doesn't work on me. And besides, I know (or can pretty well assume) that if there are, say, 5 of a given card at a given grade in a population report, there are probably twice or thrice as many actually out there in the world, or maybe more, because there are lots of collectors like me who have never submitted anything for grading and never will. Of course, PSA et al. would prefer to pretend that collectors like me don't exist. I guess you could say they don't consider US part of the population!

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Rob- the rarity scale, if it were ever to work in the baseball card hobby, would have to be based on documented examples, or those accepted from very reliable and credible sources.

And there's the rub, Barry. One man's (or board's) reliable source is another's fantasy writer.

[barrysloate]

Well somehow they manage to do it with large cents. You wouldn't believe the documentation they have.

And as Matt suggested, you can't document by TPG pop reports, because those are woefully inaccurate.

Bottom line: we probably won't see it with baseball cards.