OT: Atlanta Braves Lose The Brave

[drc]

Observation rather than judgment: My experience is that the people who get really offended over a un-PC term are a vocal minority with the 'offended' minority. The press likes to report on the people who scream the loudest and are the most obnoxious from either side of the political spectrum, and who is the loudest and most obnoxious is usually is an aberration not the norm.

Two stories:

My sister is a biologist and worked on an archeological dig at a Native American reservation. The honkey archeologists from the big city would refer to the Native Americans there as Native Americans. Finally, one of the Native Americans said (politely) "We don't like to be to called Native Americans. We call ourselves Indians."

My second story is I had a new friend who is Mexican-American. Being worried about offending, I timidly asked "Do I refer to you as a Latina or Hispanic?" She replied, "I don't care."

So, what we assume a group thinks and what they think are often not, well, what we assume. Often times PC terms are our creations for them, and not something a minority group ever signed on to. As the Indians at the archeological dig would say "Native American is your term, not ours."

In general for these types of symbols, I think it's important to poll the group. If they are universally offended by it, then I wouldn't use it. If they aren't offended then they are aren't. But notice that both these instances involving looking into what the group thinks and not assuming to know what they think.

And, as I've said more than once, all you have to know about the worth and accuracy of human labels is that black people aren't black and white people aren't white. As for me, I'm sort of a pinkish tan.

[HRBAKER]

David,
I have always thought there was a certain amount of self-loathing involved in the PC movement. Could be wrong, have been before.

[drc]

I think both PCers and ultraconservatives can force their personal beliefs on others. A shared trait. Maybe it's a trait we all share. Except for me, of course.

And another saying of mine is: In a debate, proving you opponent wrong doesn't automatically prove you right. In many debates, both sides are wrong.

[HercDriver]

I'm a Fighting Illini as well (1990), and was disgusted that we lost the Chief, while places like Florida State got to keep their mascot. If it's tasteful, the mascot can teach people about our past. But to say the Illini tribe was offended was bogus...not a single Illini exists today, as they were wiped out by other tribes. Using mascots as a link to our past could teach kids who the real savage was at Custers's Last Stand...hint: he was wearing blue and gold. I always wondered how the mascot witchhunt would have went if they started with little angry Irishmen with their fists up...

Take Care,
Geno

[Chris-Counts]

I've always been partial to earlier incarnations of the Braves' logo. As for political correctness, it's my belief that we've already taken it farther than it needs to go. I get so tired of people looking under every stone in search of something that offends them. All they're doing is drawing more attention to the differences between people, which is my definition of racism. The world has far more important problems that need addressing ...

[Hot Springs Bathers]

The was a great segment on the Native American/sports debate a couple of years ago on HBO Real Sports.

At that time it was reported that only 8 percent of Native Americans did not like seeing schools/teams use the names and likenesses. That small group was led by former Olympian Billy Mills. It seems like the vocal minority is winning out.

Just today the University of North Dakota facing a state referendum announced that they were defying the NCAA ruling and were returning the the name "Fighting Sioux."

I have no dog in the fight, I live in a state where we revere and love to call swine on the gridiron (though I was an Arkansas Tech Wonderboy in college) and being of Irish decent I have always liked Notre Dame football.

[drc]

I went to two colleges, one with a badger as a mascot and the other without a mascot. If I'm offending someone, I'm not sure who. But, just in case, Sorry.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by drc

I went to two colleges, one with a badger as a mascot and the other without a mascot. If I'm offending someone, I'm not sure who. But, just in case, Sorry.

We were the Bulldogs, the next time I get bit by one I guess I'll know why.

As a longtime Braves fan I can tell you that I found the baseball they played in the 70's and 80's much more offensive than any screaming Brave patch!