A Question Regarding Pinback Buttons

[springpin]

Mike,

I'm very pleased you have enjoyed my book. That is why I wrote it.

There are two interpretations to your question. The pinback in question is 3.5" with two ribbons with printing on them in reference to the 1968 World Series (it is a Tigers pin, for those in question). I valued that pin at $75. If that pinback had no ribbons, just the pinback itself, the value would be less than $75, perhaps 50% less in this case. A second interpretation of your question is, if I didn't own that particular pinback with ribbons, but a fellow collector sent me a picture of it for inclusion in my book, then I would value it the same, $75.

Over the years I have been asked why I did not include pins in my book that I did not personally own. It was a matter of cost and logistics. I did not want anyone to mail me their pins for photographic depiction, for fear they might get lost or damaged in transit. Second, I did not have the budget to travel around the country to photograph the pins of other collectors (although several offered, being in North Carolina I just never "happened" to be in the neighborhood of Colorado, California, etc.). Third, I was told there were various electronic technologies for submitting individual images by computer, but it involved integrating a lot of technology to have the final product be a bound book. The cost would have exceeded my budget. As I said in the book, that was my first fling at digital photography, and the poor quality of some pages speak for itself. The stunning clarity of, for example, the Smithsonian book was achieved with photographic equipment (and skill) that far exceeded mine.

[mjkm90]

Your first interpretation was what I was looking for Paul...Thank you. This is where we get into the subjective piece of the discussion. For me, the ribbons would not represent 50% of the value, but that helps me considerably when using your guide while making purchasing decisions.

And one more thing Paul...The photography of the book is fine with me. When you publish volume II we can compare

[Tigerden]

Mike-Great thread. The questions that you have in regards to ribbons were some of the same questions that I had when looking through Paul's book. Yes, the increased value of pins with ribbons attached is subjective. My rule of thumb is that a generic,common ribbon would add zero value to the pin and Muchinsky's guide touches on this. I am amazed when people get into a bidding war on eBay for a fairly common pin because it has a charm attached. However, like pins, there are also rare ribbons specific to a particular event. The best example in the Muchinsky guide is the 1962 San Francisco Giants World Series pin (X-246)with the rare World Series ribbon. The pin is a generic crossed bats design and by itself, not a rare pin and priced accordingly. The ribbon seems to be rare and with the pin together, highly sought after. Until a box of these ribbons surfaces this pin greatly increases in value with the attached ribbon. The ribbon attached to the 1968 Tigers World Series pin that you cited (X-326)is not rare , but scarce. I would add $25 to the value of the pin with this ribbon. The ribbon can also be found on pin (X-319) which I happen to own. The large size varient (X-319) of this fairly common pin design is very scarce. I would deduct $25 from Paul's book if the pin was found without the ribbon. So yes, as your aware, in many cases the ribbon adds value to the pin. A very common ribbon for the 1968 World Series can be found on pins X-323 and X-324. These ribbons can be found in large quantities by themselves and would add little value to the pin. I would not pay a premium for this pin with the ribbon, which by itself, can be purchased for $5.

[stone193]

Superb discussion.

On the note of - perhaps - someone "creating" a piece.

This pin is up on ebay right now - is it me or does the wear/aging of the pin not compare commensurately with the condition of the ribbon?

[batsballsbases]

Yep ribbons are new bottom done with pinking shears. Small figures are all over ebay. Never saw that pin come with any ribbons.

[stone193]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Yep ribbons are new bottom done with pinking shears. Small figures are all over ebay. Never saw that pin come with any ribbons.

Thanx - I agree. I bought an all star pin from this guy - didn't think about this and just liked the ribbon/charm combo - lucky for me, it's not a large amount of money - drop more on lunch with my wife.

But, it's always good to learn. Very creative thinking on the part of the seller!

[MK]

Mike H.
Since you mentioned the Cubs Dizzy Dean PM-10 pin in your original question (a very good one by the way), I thought I'd share my opinion. The three Cubs PM-10s from that time period (Dean, Hartnett and Lee) show up all the time meaning they are not scarce at all. However, they are seen without an attachment most of the time. I certainly prefer the attached pennant (or other attachments) if I am certain it is original. That of course is the tough part. I found the Hartnett with ribbons and a small pin indicating "1938" and have no reason to believe it is not original. Probably a vendor just wanted something different to separate him from competition. I think it adds a great deal to the pin and I was willing to spend more because of it. This is just one more thing that separates collecting pinbacks from cards or pennants.