David Or Fuddjical?

[Leon]

My job as moderator is to try to promote a friendly (as can be with so many type A personalities) environment to discuss all of these things. What folks should remember is that even though we have around 3200 registered members, there are no doubt multiples of that many that read the board. I can't count the number of times I have been contacted via email by a non-board member that found a thread which saved them money and grief. It is NOT the experienced board members that usually get burned by CC and their like, it is the untrained and less expert folks. They might just be getting into the hobby and that one time we save them might result in another long tenured collector. If they get burnt right off the bat then they are more likely to find a hobby that won't leave them with a stinging gut pain. (AND a fraudulent item). The answer for me is to allow ALL of these exposures and let folks know that each and every one is appreciated. As for handing over the secrets of the trade, that gets to be more touchy. As Chris won't do, and I won't either, he won't tell every last secret. I am 100% sure that scammers and fraudsters read this board. If we told them everything it would make their profession easier for them. ..I don't care if we expose bad items at CC every single hour, I will not tolerate belittling remarks. It's just not right imo....Thanks for listening..

[Leon]

Chris.....people are going to think we conspired with our posts. I assure everyone we did not. We just think along the same lines. take care my friend

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

Chris.....people are going to think we conspired with our posts. I assure everyone we did not. We just think along the same lines. take care my friend

Yes we do, Leon.

Thank you for allowing all of us to express ourselves and maybe help a few collectors along the way.

[thetruthisoutthere]

And, Fuddjical, don't you go anywhere!!!!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

And, Fuddjical, don't you go anywhere!!!!

+1
I hope that readers here did not think I was encouraging Fuddj to leave Net54.
Fuddj had stated his frustrations with the hobby on another thread and expressed a possible desire to leave the hobby. I was just referring to his own comments.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Leon

My job as moderator is to try to promote a friendly (as can be with so many type A personalities) environment to discuss all of these things. What folks should remember is that even though we have around 3200 registered members, there are no doubt multiples of that many that read the board. I can't count the number of times I have been contacted via email by a non-board member that found a thread which saved them money and grief. It is NOT the experienced board members that usually get burned by CC and their like, it is the untrained and less expert folks. They might just be getting into the hobby and that one time we save them might result in another long tenured collector. If they get burnt right off the bat then they are more likely to find a hobby that won't leave them with a stinging gut pain. (AND a fraudulent item). The answer for me is to allow ALL of these exposures and let folks know that each and every one is appreciated. As for handing over the secrets of the trade, that gets to be more touchy. As Chris won't do, and I won't either, he won't tell every last secret. I am 100% sure that scammers and fraudsters read this board. If we told them everything it would make their profession easier for them. ..I don't care if we expose bad items at CC every single hour, I will not tolerate belittling remarks. It's just not right imo....Thanks for listening..

+++++ (how many + can I give?)

[mr2686]

As for handing over the secrets of the trade, that gets to be more touchy. As Chris won't do, and I won't either, he won't tell every last secret. I am 100% sure that scammers and fraudsters read this board. If we told them everything it would make their profession easier for them. ..I don't care if we expose bad items at CC every single hour, I will not tolerate belittling remarks. It's just not right imo....Thanks for listening..

Leon, I absolutely understand what you're saying and why that could be a problem. It is touchy for those reasons and for the following. Without any discussion of why an autograph is bad, there can be no knowledgable dialog to possibly "correct" the person that thinks a good autograph is bad. By just taking Chris's word (and I'm not trying to pick on him, believe me) the rest of us are taking a leap of faith (and as we all have discussed recently, a leap of faith in this hobby is very dangerous). Now, all I know about Chris is that he starting doing the videos on youtube exposing the autographs he thought were bad. Now Chris is on here and trying to expose bad autographs on ebay and cc, etc. All of this is great, but he's asking everyone to take him at his word...which wouldn't be as hard if he, or anyone else in the same situation for that matter, would come out and either explain why they are bad autos, or at least discuss their qualifications. Let's face it, even Richard has said that he (Richard) made mistakes on some Mantle autos in the past. Has Chris been a long time collector? Guess what, I have too but that doesn't qualify me as an expert on some stuff (granted you could pick anything off of CC and be right 100% of the time). I'm not saying Chris is wrong, and I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, all I'm saying is that if you can't see both sides of the fence on this issue then there will never be a solution to the growing problems in the hobby.
Like I said, I don't have the answer, but I do appreciate the chance to discuss this here.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Leon, I absolutely understand what you're saying and why that could be a problem. It is touchy for those reasons and for the following. Without any discussion of why an autograph is bad, there can be no knowledgable dialog to possibly "correct" the person that thinks a good autograph is bad. By just taking Chris's word (and I'm not trying to pick on him, believe me) the rest of us are taking a leap of faith (and as we all have discussed recently, a leap of faith in this hobby is very dangerous). Now, all I know about Chris is that he starting doing the videos on youtube exposing the autographs he thought were bad. Now Chris is on here and trying to expose bad autographs on ebay and cc, etc. All of this is great, but he's asking everyone to take him at his word...which wouldn't be as hard if he, or anyone else in the same situation for that matter, would come out and either explain why they are bad autos, or at least discuss their qualifications. Let's face it, even Richard has said that he (Richard) made mistakes on some Mantle autos in the past. Has Chris been a long time collector? Guess what, I have too but that doesn't qualify me as an expert on some stuff (granted you could pick anything off of CC and be right 100% of the time). I'm not saying Chris is wrong, and I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, all I'm saying is that if you can't see both sides of the fence on this issue then there will never be a solution to the growing problems in the hobby.
Like I said, I don't have the answer, but I do appreciate the chance to discuss this here.

Mike, I totally understand and appreciate your comments.

Long before I started doing videos in Oct. 2008, I wrote for approximately ten blogs writing about Ebay sellers of forgeries. When I decided to start doing YouTube videos, I made it known that my videos were never meant to be educational.

I do what I do for one reason only and that reason is to expose forgeries and those that sell them. That's what I do. I love the hobby; I love baseball cards; collecting certain autographs is very cool. And I will do all I can to get rid of the scum that have infected our hobby.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Leon, I absolutely understand what you're saying and why that could be a problem. It is touchy for those reasons and for the following. Without any discussion of why an autograph is bad, there can be no knowledgable dialog to possibly "correct" the person that thinks a good autograph is bad. By just taking Chris's word (and I'm not trying to pick on him, believe me) the rest of us are taking a leap of faith (and as we all have discussed recently, a leap of faith in this hobby is very dangerous). Now, all I know about Chris is that he starting doing the videos on youtube exposing the autographs he thought were bad. Now Chris is on here and trying to expose bad autographs on ebay and cc, etc. All of this is great, but he's asking everyone to take him at his word...which wouldn't be as hard if he, or anyone else in the same situation for that matter, would come out and either explain why they are bad autos, or at least discuss their qualifications. Let's face it, even Richard has said that he (Richard) made mistakes on some Mantle autos in the past. Has Chris been a long time collector? Guess what, I have too but that doesn't qualify me as an expert on some stuff (granted you could pick anything off of CC and be right 100% of the time). I'm not saying Chris is wrong, and I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, all I'm saying is that if you can't see both sides of the fence on this issue then there will never be a solution to the growing problems in the hobby.
Like I said, I don't have the answer, but I do appreciate the chance to discuss this here.

Mike,
I for one would like to speak up for Chris' qualifications.
Discerning bad autographs from the good is part art and part science. The "science" part being a good exemplar file to use to compare the questioned autograph to what you absolutely know is good (your exemplar file). The art part is in a persons eye, for want of a better term. You have the eye to do it well or you don't. Many advanced collectors don't even have this. I have seen bad items in many a quality collection.
I know after being his friend for some time now,that Chris has the eye. I trust his opinion. He knows what he is talking about. I have seen examples of it and I have seen items on ebay, that were well done forgeries, that he has pointed out to me. I trust his opinion and always will.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Mike,
I for one would like to speak up for Chris' qualifications.
Discerning bad autographs from the good is part art and part science. The "science" part being a good exemplar file to use to compare the questioned autograph to what you absolutely know is good (your exemplar file). The art part is in a persons eye, for want of a better term. You have the eye to do it well or you don't. Many advanced collectors don't even have this. I have seen bad items in many a quality collection.
I know after being his friend for some time now,that Chris has the eye. I trust his opinion. He knows what he is talking about. I have seen examples of it and I have seen items on ebay, that were well done forgeries, that he has pointed out to me. I trust his opinion and always will.

Thank you, Richard, I appreciate that.

The check is in the mail...

[mr2686]

Thanks Richard, and that's the kind of info that's invaluable to the rest of us. I definitely understand what you're saying about the eye. I think I have a pretty good eye in person, but to tell you the truth it's getting harder to be able to look at some internet scans on the screen and always tell 100% (probably because my eyes are shot from looking at computer screens most of my life). Some are obvious, some not so much. Plus, there's nothing like having an autograph in your hands and being able to magnify it to see how it looks. I really miss the days when you could get a 3x5 Rube Marquard for a couple of bucks and know that it wasn't worth anyone taking the time to learn how to fake his sig. The genie is out of the bottle I'm afraid.