This sums it up about Jeter and 3000

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

We are in total agreement here. The night after McGwire hit number 62, I sold my entire McGwire collection for hundreds of dollars at the local card shop. I totally understand the phenomenon of peak popularity.

Wow! It's like tulipomania, all over again.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I don't think it is wrong for Jeter (or anyone else) to charge for autographs at a show, through mail order, etc.--it is a service rendered and if it is overpriced or unwanted, don't buy it--but I do think it is wrong when the prevalent view among athletes becomes that an unpaid autograph is something to be frowned upon, wheither you call it a freebie, brand dilution, leakage, etc. It is called "public relations" and at the right time and place is part of being in the entertainment industry.

As a public person/celebrity who earns millions trading on the goodwill of the public as a product endorser, one of the things Jeter accepts as part of the deal is the duty [yes, it is a duty] to do right by the people who support him. I find it appalling when a ballplayer refuses to sign for a fan (unless the situation is very, very inappropriate, like in a bathroom), especially when the justification is that the fan might sell the item.

If an athlete makes millions playing baseball and endorsing products that he expects kids to purchase based on his endorsements, guess what, the athletes is a role model and with that privilege comes responsibility. One of the reasons I have gone from a rabid fan who had season tickets to a person who rarely watches the game and never attends is the attitude towards the fans exhibited by players and management.

Not wanting to be taken advantage of goes both ways.

I agree with you a million percent.

[Vintagedegu]

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[T206Collector]

I understand your concerns, but to hate the game as a business today, when it has been a business since 1869, in my view, is an oversimplification. So much of your gut feeling on this was expressed by fans in 1869. But people continued to love the game, and support it as wholesome entertainment, when it has been a money-driven industry for nearly 150 years.

My appreciation for the history of the game accepts this as just another chapter. I may not agree to spend $600 on a Jeter ball, but I don't hate any of the participants... Neither the fans, the teams, the players, the sellers of memorabilia, etc.

[Vintagedegu]

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[ChiefBenderForever]

The same principles can be applied to everything and yes it sucks, everything sucks. Exxon Mobile just made $48 billion in profits and yet I have been paying 4.00-4.50 a gallon for over 4 months and will probably get worse, why ? Because now they have to try to make $100 billion in profits. I guess the Walmart effect has completely spilled over to everything, even our beloved hobby. And when someone just dropped over 1k to see the game what is another $600 for a ball for Jr ?

Sadly most fans can barely afford to go to one game a year and have enough trouble paying the cable bill on time. And most people only go when they get tickets for free but many don't ever have that happen. But the players are still the best of the best, and hopefully the league and owners are keeping an eye on the NBA, where 80% of the teams have less than 50% of the seats filled everynight and can only blame themselves. Even the great Yankees had empty seats at the playoffs, that never happened at the House the Ruth built. Greed is good until you price everybody out and are left holding the bag of s*&t you filled.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by ChiefBenderForever

The same principles can be applied to everything and yes it sucks, everything sucks. Exxon Mobile just made $48 billion in profits and yet I have been paying 4.00-4.50 a gallon for over 4 months and will probably get worse, why ? Because now they have to try to make $100 billion in profits. I guess the Walmart effect has completely spilled over to everything, even our beloved hobby. And when someone just dropped over 1k to see the game what is another $600 for a ball for Jr ?

Sadly most fans can barely afford to go to one game a year and have enough trouble paying the cable bill on time. And most people only go when they get tickets for free but many don't ever have that happen. But the players are still the best of the best, and hopefully the league and owners are keeping an eye on the NBA, where 80% of the teams have less than 50% of the seats filled everynight and can only blame themselves. Even the great Yankees had empty seats at the playoffs, that never happened at the House the Ruth built. Greed is good until you price everybody out and are left holding the bag of s*&t you filled.

Good post- I agree!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Vintagedegu

I know what you mean, but the way I see it, business doesn't have to be cold, impersonal and soulless. The 'Pre-Steiner' era was like a mom-and-pop store to today's Walmart. It's the Babe hanging out signing autographs on the street versus being funneled like rats through a Tri-Star queue. I believe we're dealing with an objective, quantitative difference between now and 1869 or even 1989. It's a total rupture with the past. Not a relative situation where it's essentially the same, but developing naturally with the times.

I saw the tail end of the 'fun' days, and the players and collectibles weren't as snooty, overpriced and 'businesslike' as today. There were no $500 autograph tickets, even adjusted for inflation. People made their money (not as much though) without tearing out the soul of the game/hobby. A person who was angry over the rise of professional baseball would fall over dead if they saw this.

And believe me T, I don't want be argumentative or demean your views or love of the hobby. It's good that you still find enjoyment in these things, as people need an occasional refuge from all the crap in the world. Speaking for myself, though, I just don't care anymore. For the last 2-3 years, I've largely ignored current developments in baseball, instead devoting my time to the old guys.

+100...............I have felt this same way my whole adult life. I could care less about watching today's major league games for all of the reasons stated. I can't stand the whole thing...the players, the owners, the everything about today's Major Leagues.

On a related note I read today where the local Texas Rangers Double A team, the Frisco Roughriders, just went over the 5 million mark in attendance. They are the most watched double A team in "business" today. I do like their games and everything about them. The tickets are about $10, the hot dogs are about $3, sodas about $3 and the parking is Free. Add to that the players are nice and they look like they are having fun. I still love the game....just can't stand the Majors nor do I watch any Major League games. And I am sure everyone on the board already knows my feelings as I have usually been in the vast minority and fairly outspoken....which is ok too. To each their own. best regards

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Hey, Dan. Remember when you were a kid, and you somehow got your friend to give you that toy of his that you wanted? And how happy you were when you brought it home? And then, how your mother made you give it back?

I do.

A child caught Jeter's 3000th?

[David Atkatz]

Baseball brings out the child in all of us. (That's why we collect.)

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

+100...............I have felt this same way my whole adult life. I could care less about watching today's major league games for all of the reasons stated. I can't stand the whole thing...the players, the owners, the everything about today's Major Leagues.

On a related note I read today where the local Texas Rangers Double A team, the Frisco Roughriders, just went over the 5 million mark in attendance. They are the most watched double A team in "business" today. I do like their games and everything about them. The tickets are about $10, the hot dogs are about $3, sodas about $3 and the parking is Free. Add to that the players are nice and they look like they are having fun. I still love the game....just can't stand the Majors nor do I watch any Major League games. And I am sure everyone on the board already knows my feelings as I have usually been in the vast minority and fairly outspoken....which is ok too. To each their own. best regards

You can't beat minor league baseball...you just can't. I won free tickets to today's game on the comfort zone couch (A contest I sign up for every year)..however it is over 100f today with a heat index of 110 and that black vinyl couch in the sun just doesn't sound like it's worth it today.

[mr2686]

OMG!! Can you imagine sitting on a Vinyl couch, in shorts and in over 100 degree weather? Can you say having to be surgically removed from said couch?