Chris Morales appears in court for an autograph case, read about the results.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Lovert Bassett vs. Bryan Slaven, Case No. 10 SC 3866

I have been in contact with Mr. Lovert Bassett in reference to his lawsuit against Autograph Central (Bryan Slaven). Mr. Bassett purchased eight signed photographs from Autograph Central (Bryan Slaven). The eight signed photographs contained a total of ten (10) signatures of Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, Lon Chaney and Elsa Lanchester.

All ten signatures were authenticated by Christopher Morales, Forensic Investigator. Mr. Morales testified on Bryan Slaven’s behalf as an expert witness.

The trial was held on March 11, 2011 at the Lake County Illinois Courthouse.

Mr. Bassett’s total purchase price for all eight photographs (a total of ten signatures) was $7, 345.00.

Mr. Bassett, after he took possession of the eight photographs, decided to have PSA examine the ten signatures. PSA deemed them as “not authentic.”

Mr. Bassett then hired Mr. Robin Williams, a Forensic Document Examiner (FDE), to examine the ten signatures. Mr. Williams (FDE), using a Stereo-Microscope and other instruments, determined that all ten signatures were traced (forgeries).

According to Mr. Bassett, when Mr. Morales was questioned by Mr. Slaven’s attorney, Mr. Morales referenced “The Autograph Collectors” handbook, photographs from the “Smithsonian Museum” and the Library of Congress as sources for exemplars that he uses to authenticate autographs.

According to Mr. Bassett, Mr. Morales also testified that he uses business contracts, checks and other financial documents as good sources for exemplars because by their very nature they are most likely to bear the authentic celebrity signature. However, when questioned by Judge Fusz, Mr. Morales admitted that the COAs he issued for the eight signed photographs (10 signatures) were based on a comparison analysis to each other, rather than on verified third-party exemplars.


According to Mr. Bassett, Mr. Morales testified that he spent 2-3 hours examining each signature. Being that Mr. Morales examined ten signatures, that equals a minimum of 20 hours of examinations. And according to Mr. Bassett, Mr. Morales testified that he invoices at the rate of $75.00 per item (not signature). Being that Mr. Morales forensically examined eight photographs, the total invoice for all eight photos was $600.00. $600.00 for 20 hours of examination equals $30.00 per hour for Mr Morales.

Now let’s get back to the fact that all ten signatures were traced (forgeries). If Chris Morales is a true “Forensic Investigator,” using “State Of The Art Technology (as per his COA)” how is it possible that he did not determine that all ten signatures of Bela Lugosi, Lon Chaney, Boris Karloff and Elsa Lanchester were all traced (forgeries)?

Judge Michael Fusz made the decision to throw out both Mr. Morales’ testimony and the exemplars Mr. Morales used to “authenticate” all ten signatures.

According to Mr. Bassett, “BRYAN SLAVEN GAVE ME A FULL $7,345.00 REFUND A WEEK BEFORE THE COURT WAS SCHEDULED TO RENDER A WRITTEN JUDGMENT.”


If Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, charges $75.00 to authenticate an item, and if that item has 27 signatures (link below), and if Mr. Morales spends a minimum of two hours on each signature, that equals 54 hours. That comes to an hourly rate of $1.38.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=272151


I have both spoken and exchanged emails with a number of “Forensic Document Examiners.” They are not cheap. I emailed a few FDE’s a photo of an Abraham Lincoln cut signature and asked for rates to examine it. The absolute lowest rate I received was a $700.00 flat rate fee. That was for only one signature. I also sent a photo of a baseball that was signed by thirteen Presidents (one that was from Coach’s Corner Auctions and certed by Mr. Morales). The lowest rate I received to examine it was $2,000.00. The most expensive rate I got back was $18,000.00. But here’s the real kicker. The majority of FDE’s that I received a reply from wrote me that they could not examine certain pieces because of the lack of genuine exemplars.

Think about this; if the majority of Forensic Document Examiners (at least the ones I communicated with) had to refuse work I offered them due to the lack of genuine exemplars, then what is Chris Morales using as exemplars for all of the vintage and historical cuts that he “authenticates” for Coach’s Corner? Most FDE’s require at least ten genuine exemplars. What exemplars is Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator using to “authenticate” historical cuts of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, etc.?

This month’s Coach’s Corner Auctions for the month of July is up and running. Up for auction are cut signatures of Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow (separate auctions). Exemplars for both Bonnie and Clyde’s signatures are almost non-existent. What exemplars did Chris Morales use to pass them as genuine?

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=275521

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=275520


Mr. Morales is more than welcome to respond to the comments here. If he disputes any of the comments here I will welcome his reply. I curiously welcome his input in reference to the exemplars he uses for his examinations of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Mike “King” Kelly, Eddie Plank. Al Capone, Ben “Bugsy” Siegel, Pretty Boy Floyd, Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson, Geronimo, Josh Gibson, Davey Crockett, Joe Jackson (baseball), etc.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=275392

Crockett.jpg

I would also like to ask Mr. Morales a few questions. Mr. Morales, as a “Forensic Investigator,” do you think you have a moral and professional obligation to question all of the rare vintage and historical cuts that Coach’s Corner Auctions sends to you to authenticate every month? Cut signatures that major auction houses can only dream about selling. Do you have a moral and professional obligation to question Coach’s Corner about all of the Babe Ruth, Christy Mathewson, Lou Gehrig, etc., autograph items that pass through your hands for authentication every four weeks? Did it ever cross your mind, Mr. Morales, where all of this rare vintage, autographed memorabilia originates from?

The hobby is interested in your reply, Mr. Morales. Also, Mr. Morales, you are now on Ebay’s banned list. How does a “Forensic Investigator” with the credentials that you claim, get on Ebay’s banned list?

And finally, Mr. Morales, how does a “Forensic Investigator” who claims to be “Court-Approved,” using "State Of The Art Technology" not discover that the ten signatures on those eight photos sold to Mr. Bassett were traced?

[steve B]

Geez that Crockett is horrible!
New black ink on a bit of old document. It should all look like the ink to the left of the sig. Oak gall ink was common back then and turns that nice brown color over time. How does anyone authenticate something that obvious, and how does anyone pay anything for it?

Steve B

[GrayGhost]

Chris, thanks for the GREAT article. Now, if we could only get the FBI to read some of this stuff and the "duped bidders" (not the crooks who will try and resell the fack crap), the world would be a much better place. Sadly, people like the Roaches w their Morales and TTA and other clowns, only make the real autographs not sell, as some people get the negative assurance. "If this one is bad, so is this one probably".

Again, we need more FIRM PROOF of the ineptitude of guys like Morales to really shake the doors of the FBI, Attorney General, etc. Are people like Chris fighting a losing battle? Maybe, if the higher ups dont seem to care. But, remember, people are FIGHTING tho, so theres always the chance to win in the end.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Thanks, Scott. I'm not stopping until the inevitable occurs.

I tried to keep the article as short as possible here on Net54, but I have a longer version of my article below:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/pr...s-bryan-slaven

[GrayGhost]

Excellent full article. But, Chris, Mr Morales has no guts to refute any of these claims. neither do Mr Taylor, or any of these other crook authenticators. It all comes down to getting the money, and thinking that being labeled a "FDE" is great. IT isn't worth poop, if you don't have a clue.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Excellent full article. But, Chris, Mr Morales has no guts to refute any of these claims. neither do Mr Taylor, or any of these other crook authenticators. It all comes down to getting the money, and thinking that being labeled a "FDE" is great. IT isn't worth poop, if you don't have a clue.

You're right, Scott, Morales can't refute anything. Bryan Slaven issued Mr. Lovert Bassett a full refund for all eight photos.

Which leads all of us to a question that we have all pondered for years; does Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, actually physically examine the items that he issues certs for?

[Fuddjcal]

Thanks for the great article on Chris Moral Less

A complete boob if ever there was one. At the most, he is AT the center of a forgery ring...a machine that apparently cannot be stopped. At the very least, he's a FESTERING BOIL on the ASS of Autograph collecting.

[mdschulze]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Thanks for the great article on Chris Moral Less

A complete boob if ever there was one. At the most, he is AT the center of a forgery ring...a machine that apparently cannot be stopped. At the very least, he's a FESTERING BOIL on the ASS of Autograph collecting.

Yeah, but he has one helluva resume on his website! I wonder how many of his credentials are fraudulent and how many of his personal certificates are forgeries?

http://www.moralesforensics.com/resume.htm

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

Yeah, but he has one helluva resume on his website! I wonder how many of his credentials are fraudulent and how many of his personal certificates are forgeries?

http://www.moralesforensics.com/resume.htm

who cares what he says his credentials are. I really don't care and it really doesn't matter if he's the Pope. His work speaks for itself. I would venture a guess that 99.99% of his personal certificates are for forged items. SHOW ME JUST ONE Mickey Mantle, with his shiney Gold Hologram that is real and I'll show you a photo that has had the JSA, PSA or upperdeck hologram removed for purposes of a sting operation.

[mdschulze]

Is there some legal loophole here that I'm missing? Why hasn't this clown been locked up along with Coach's Corner? With all the evidence that is against him, and with no rebuttal from Morales on these public accusations, you'd think the Feds would have stepped in and closed him down by now.

It's just a matter of time before he authenticates a signature from Jesus and Coach's Corner has it up for auction.

[thetruthisoutthere]

The real irony being the Stereo-Microscope that was used by FDE Mr. Robin Williams to determine that the ten signatures were all traced by a forger, is probably similar to the Stereo-Microscope that Morales is posing with on his website. Geez, maybe it wasn't plugged in when he was examining those ten signatures of Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, Elsa Lanchester and Lon Chaney.

In all seriousness, the main question is, doesn't Morales physically examine anything that he issues COAs for?

[Big Dave]

For all the complaints against Mr. Morales, there really isn't anything that can be done legally. After all is said and done, he is only offering his opinion on items, right or wrong, which is the same as all authenticators do. When nobody does business with him anymore, then that is when he will close up shop.

Take Donald Frangipani in comparison. His COAs were on so many of the items sold and confiscated in regard to Operation Bullpen, yet he is still in business and did not get into any trouble in regard to Operation Bullpen. The reason being, he was only stating his opinion, which we all have, and which is still, not against the law.

Pretty much is the same in regard to Coach's Corner. They are auctioning items that people send in, and these items are being sold based on opinions as to the authenticity, the same as all auction houses do.

CC has been in the auction business since 1996 - 15 years - and will probably be around a lot longer.

Being as Mr. Morales or Coach's Corner don't actually create these questionable items, there really isn't anything legally that can be done. Now if it were to be a fact that they did create these items, then that would be a different story.

Everything is based on opinions and money. The bidders know who the authenticators are on pretty much everything, and there is a wealth of information on the Internet for them to make a judgment in regard to purchasing from CC.

It is what you believe, or want to believe, that makes an item real.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

It is what you believe, or want to believe, that makes an item real.

Uhhh... No.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

Is there some legal loophole here that I'm missing? Why hasn't this clown been locked up along with Coach's Corner? With all the evidence that is against him, and with no rebuttal from Morales on these public accusations, you'd think the Feds would have stepped in and closed him down by now.

It's just a matter of time before he authenticates a signature from Jesus and Coach's Corner has it up for auction.

Mike,
NOW up for auction on CC

It's an 8x10 with an incredibly important inscription.


This one is 11x17 and came from the Iscariot collection.




Mark

[mdschulze]

Nice job Mark... title it, "Holy Crap" and submit it to Mr. Morales and let him know that one of your ancestors acquired the sigs himself, in person, and that they have been locked in an old cedar chest up in the attic for the last 2000 years!

@ Mr. Williams: Nice article and research... I enjoyed reading it, thanks!

@ Big Dave: I didn't realize that they couldn't be held legally responsible for their actions/opinions. If authenticators have this to fall back on to cover their a$$es, then why aren't there more self proclaimed authenticators out there? Given today's economy and the increased amount of scammers, it's surprising that more people don't jump on the bandwagon... at least temporarily until they are exposed.

Additionally, I don't think it would be too hard to see where the fakes are being originated.... maybe a little heat from the Feds towards CC would turn up some names. Makes me wonder why this hasn't been done already. Is it because the Feds see this as a waste of time or for some other agenda that I'm missing?

[RichardSimon]

There has been an anonymous e mail which circulated a while ago.
It named several people as suppliers of CC.
Three of the four names did not surprise me at all.
However, the e mail did not offer any evidence of their guilt.

[thetruthisoutthere]

There are approximately 4,000 auctions listed by CC every month. I would bet a ton of money that all of their autograph auctions (vintage, cut sigs, historical) are supplied to CC by less then ten people. Maybe less than five. It's incredible the tens of thousands pieces of garbage that both Lee Trythall and Scott Malack have flooded the market with. It's insane that it still continues. The majority of it "authenticated" by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, and Ted Taylor (TTA & Stat Authentic).

[mdschulze]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

There are approximately 4,000 auctions listed by CC every month. I would bet a ton of money that all of their autograph auctions (vintage, cut sigs, historical) are supplied to CC by less then ten people. Maybe less than five. It's incredible the tens of thousands pieces of garbage that both Lee Trythall and Scott Malack have flooded the market with. It's insane that it still continues. The majority of it "authenticated" by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, and Ted Taylor (TTA & Stat Authentic).

This was my thought exactly! I can picture 3-4 guys sitting around the table with a couple of beers knocking out autographs and laughing about everyone they're screwing. I wonder how much $$ these guys have scammed out of people since they started? This pisses me off to the extreme to find worthless people out there who screw people out of their money, regardless of what industry it's in. What do you do to stop these guys? You and several others have written informative articles that can be easily accessible on the internet, but now what? It's frustrating to see this info out there with no rebuttals from the guilty and no pending criminal charges.

[thetruthisoutthere]

There is a ton of information on the web about the thousands of GAI authenticated forgeries with Mike Baker's name on the COA. But check out the below Ebay seller. Look at his photographs of the GAI cert. He conveniently cuts the GAI cert just above where Mike Baker's name would read. Of course, these Mike Baker certed forgeries are very obvious without the GAI cert.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mantle-Si...item3cb962aa91

FAT-1.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mantle-Wi...item3cb9629a98

FAT-2.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mantle-Te...item3369008071

FAT-3.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

This was my thought exactly! I can picture 3-4 guys sitting around the table with a couple of beers knocking out autographs and laughing about everyone they're screwing. I wonder how much $$ these guys have scammed out of people since they started? This pisses me off to the extreme to find worthless people out there who screw people out of their money, regardless of what industry it's in. What do you do to stop these guys? You and several others have written informative articles that can be easily accessible on the internet, but now what? It's frustrating to see this info out there with no rebuttals from the guilty and no pending criminal charges.

Very true, Mike. The people who create this garbage and those that sell that garbage have absolutely no conscience.

[benjulmag]

is that Mr. Morales plies his trade in an unlicensed profession. In contrast to professions such as law, medicine, actuary, autograph authentication is an unregulated and unlicensed profession. So anybody, regardless of the person's competence or integrity, may practice it. The way to stop unscrupulous authenticators is to have licensing requirements. That will require that prospective practioners demonstrate competence in the area, as well allow the licensing authority to revoke the license of unscrupulous or incompetent licensees. Without that, it is truly the wild west out there, making it quite difficult to obtain criminal convictions.

I might add that it wouldn't be a bad idea for auction houses too to be licensed. Perhaps that might weed out some of the more unscupulous players.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

is that Mr. Morales plies his trade in an unlicensed profession. In contrast to professions such as law, medicine, actuary, autograph authentication is an unregulated and unlicensed profession. So anybody, regardless of the person's competence or integrity, may practice it. The way to stop unscrupulous authenticators is to have licensing requirements. That will require that prospective practioners demonstrate competence in the area, as well allow the licensing authority to revoke the license of unscrupulous or incompetent licensees. Without that, it is truly the wild west out there, making it quite difficult to obtain criminal convictions.

I might add that it wouldn't be a bad idea for auction houses too to be licensed. Perhaps that might weed out some of the more unscupulous players.

I don't know about other states, but Massachusetts licenses auctioneers. And I have seen them enforce rules from the podium.

Licensing may help, but it isn't much of a solution. I wish I'd taken pics of the work a licensed contractor did on my porch. Worse than a bad Jr High shop project. It's been redone now, by a competent contractor. The other porch was done by me - not licensed, not a contractor. It came out much better than what the first guy did. (And the second guy said it was ok work, not up to his standards, but acceptable)

So much licensing these days is based on classes, usually 8-40 hours and a passably challenging test. And often no real experience required unless there's a union involved(Which is another rant I won't afflict you with..)

Steve B

[thetruthisoutthere]

Anyone can take a 2-week course on Handwriting Examination" and call themselves a "Document Examiner."

Just think of the number of people who call themselves "Document Examiners" or "Forensic Experts" who abuse that title.

Then there are the so-called collectors who are totally naive and ignorant, who believe that because a COA reads the word "Forensic" or "Document Examiner" that the autograph must be authentic.

Look at the thousands of so-called collectors who got suckered in by the "Nicholas Burczyk" COA because the COA read "Forensic Document Examiner."

Go to the website of Chris Morales and you'll see pages and pages of credentials and from those credentials this is what you get:

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=272094

This is a close-up of that Ruth cut:

MR.jpg

[GrayGhost]

this just seems like a losing battle. I hope not tho, but terrible indeed. Keep fighting, one person turned away from these scum is good. Plus, certs being banned in places is a good start to what hopefully is a final long term goal.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

this just seems like a losing battle. I hope not tho, but terrible indeed. Keep fighting, one person turned away from these scum is good. Plus, certs being banned in places is a good start to what hopefully is a final long term goal.

I hope not either, Scott. But I, for one, am not going away.

Yes, Christopher L. Morales, Forensic Investigator, on Ebay's banned list.

I read on a website a few weeks ago where someone was blaming a certain person for Morales being placed on Ebay's banned list.

Only one person got Morales on Ebay's banned list and that person is Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator.

[benjulmag]

The merits of licensing is not so much to ensure that competent practioneers ply the trade. I agree with the concerns that the licensing requirements may as a practical matter do little to keep out imcompetent practioneers. Rather the advantage to such a requirement is that it would give the the licensing authority the right to ban those whom by their subsequent actions have been shown to be incompetent and/or unscrupulous. So once it has been shown that a person clearly doesn't know or doesn't care what he is doing, at that point he could be banned. Granted that won't help those adversely impacted by the initial incorrect certifications. But it could materially reduce the number of future victims.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The merits of licensing is not so much to ensure that competent practioneers ply the trade. I agree with the concerns that the licensing requirements may as a practical matter do little to keep out imcompetent practioneers. Rather the advantage to such a requirement is that it would give the the licensing authority the right to ban those whom by their subsequent actions have been shown to be incompetent and/or unscrupulous. So once it has been shown that a person clearly doesn't know or doesn't care what he is doing, at that point he could be banned. Granted that won't help those adversely impacted by the initial incorrect certifications. But it could materially reduce the number of future victims.

Excellent point, Corey.

Think about this; none of the major auctions will not accept anything on consignment that has a COA from Morales and Ted Taylor (TTA/Stat Authentic). Ted Taylor and Morales are both on Ebay's banned list.

The only auction houses that accept COAs from Morales and Ted Taylor all list and sell horrific forgeries. That pretty much sums it up.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I won't include the link to the below item that sold as I will not give them any free advertising, but look at this horrific Mantle forgery certed by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator. The winning bid was $8.00. Yes, $8.00.

WWW-1.jpg

WWW-2.jpg

[GrayGhost]

As you have said in your videos Chris, people should REALIZE that 8.00 sales of Mantle signed photos are RIDICULOUS. People themselves are morons. When something sells THAT Cheap or like in the Roach's, signed Hoss Radbourne and Lincoln "cuts" and the like go so cheap, don't they ask why? People are too lazy to get proper QUALIFIED opinions.

The crooks still buy and flip, but now, more people are hopefully going to realize if it walks like Chris Morales, talks like Chris Morales, it sure is most likely A FAKE!!

[mdschulze]

Let's see if I understand this correctly.... If I purchased a certified autographed item from an auction house that was later deemed a forgery, would I have any legal ramifications as a buyer? If so, who would be held accountable... the auction house or the authenticator? I'm no attorney but I would think that since the auction house is listing the item as authentic, they should be on the hook on behalf of the duped buyer Once they refund my $$, then the auction house would have to get their money back from the item's original owner.... then the owner would have to pursue the authenticator for a refund. At this time, the authenticator can use the line, "Well, it was my expert opinion" and get off free and clear without issuing a refund or face any criminal charges.

Is this how these situations typically play out or does the auction house use verbage like "buyer beware" and the initial request for a refund never makes it down the chain to the authenticator. I've never purchased anything from an auction house so I apologize for all of the questions.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

Let's see if I understand this correctly.... If I purchased a certified autographed item from an auction house that was later deemed a forgery, would I have any legal ramifications as a buyer? If so, who would be held accountable... the auction house or the authenticator? I'm no attorney but I would think that since the auction house is listing the item as authentic, they should be on the hook on behalf of the duped buyer Once they refund my $$, then the auction house would have to get their money back from the item's original owner.... then the owner would have to pursue the authenticator for a refund. At this time, the authenticator can use the line, "Well, it was my expert opinion" and get off free and clear without issuing a refund or face any criminal charges.

Is this how these situations typically play out or does the auction house use verbage like "buyer beware" and the initial request for a refund never makes it down the chain to the authenticator. I've never purchased anything from an auction house so I apologize for all of the questions.

I've never purchased from an auction house either, but I would think if an item was discovered not to be authentic, then the auction house would have to issue you a refund, and then deal with the authenticator. That, to me, would be the proper and correct way of handling a situation like that.

[Big Dave]

A lot of auction houses list the authenticator for an item and state that if you are not "comfortable with the authentication or authenticator", then do not bid as there are no returns.

Very few auction houses will accept a return, regardless. It is a buyer beware market, and do your homework. That is why most of them will not accept credit cards, because if they do, the buyer has a recourse if they don't like the item for whatever reason.

Even if you go to live auctions where memorabilia or anything is being sold, the items are sold "as is, where is" regardless of any COAs.

There are always going to be differences of opinion on the authenticity of an item, even the so called experts disagree on many items.

I seriously doubt this industry or authenticators will ever be regulated.

The only regulation there is, is via the money in your pocket.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

For all the complaints against Mr. Morales, there really isn't anything that can be done legally. After all is said and done, he is only offering his opinion on items, right or wrong, which is the same as all authenticators do.

I don't believe this is accurate. It wouldn't take much of an investigation or a very clever prosecutor to link him as a key component of a criminal conspiracy.

"It's my opinion" may be a valid defense for errors that fall within an acceptable margin of error. When you are wrong almost all the time, and there is a criminal pattern to your "errors," this defense will not hold up.

Take Donald Frangipani in comparison. His COAs were on so many of the items sold and confiscated in regard to Operation Bullpen, yet he is still in business and did not get into any trouble in regard to Operation Bullpen. The reason being, he was only stating his opinion, which we all have, and which is still, not against the law.

Actually, the only reason Frangipani wiggled off the hook is that he played dumb and claimed that someone forged his COAs. The irony!

Unlike other players in the Marino crime syndicate, Frangipani was smart enough to not say anything incriminating when he was being recorded. But he was definitely a person of interest to the FBI.

I believe this is a reason why these "Forensic Document Examiners" do not include photographs of the item on their COAs. It preserves the defense that an item could have been swapped out or some other variation of "That's not the item I examined!"

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I don't believe this is accurate. It wouldn't take much of an investigation or a very clever prosecutor to link him as a key component of a criminal conspiracy.

"It's my opinion" may be a valid defense for errors that fall within an acceptable margin of error. When you are wrong almost all the time, and there is a criminal pattern to your "errors," this defense will not hold up.



Actually, the only reason Frangipani wiggled off the hook is that he played dumb and claimed that someone forged his COAs. The irony!

Unlike other players in the Marino crime syndicate, Frangipani was smart enough to not say anything incriminating when he was being recorded. But he was definitely a person of interest to the FBI.

I believe this is a reason why these "Forensic Document Examiners" do not include photographs of the item on their COAs. It preserves the defense that an item could have been swapped out or some other variation of "That's not the item I examined!"

Frangipani made himself look real bad during that HBO show. Then he had the nerve to sue a bunch of people.

Look at the newest Morales COA. It doesn't even include the name of the signer or a description of the item.

The only reason that Morales might get it right once-in-awhile is because he gets lucky. I'd love to see proof that he physically examines anything.

[mdschulze]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

The only reason that Morales might get it right once-in-awhile is because he gets lucky. I'd love to see proof that he physically examines anything.

There's a photo of him on his website looking through a microscope... what more proof could anyone ask for?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

There's a photo of him on his website looking through a microscope... what more proof could anyone ask for?

Drew Max (AAU) has a magnifying glass with the biggest lens this side of the Hubble telescope.

He MUST be good!!

[oriolesbb6]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Mike,
NOW up for auction on CC

It's an 8x10 with an incredibly important inscription.


This one is 11x17 and came from the Iscariot collection.




Mark

Holy Sh*t thats funny

[thetruthisoutthere]

Hey, Morales, did you actually physically examine the below autographs of Paul and Lloyd Waner? Did you happen to look at the "R" on both signatures? Both sigs were penned by the same person, Morales.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=275389

WanerBrothers.jpg

[perezfan]

That Waner Bros. piece is something else. I was actually conflicted over whether to laugh or cry when I saw it posted.

Hard to believe even the forger would actually be content with that one.

Originally Posted by Big Dave

A lot of auction houses list the authenticator for an item and state that if you are not "comfortable with the authentication or authenticator", then do not bid as there are no returns.

Very few auction houses will accept a return, regardless. It is a buyer beware market, and do your homework. That is why most of them will not accept credit cards, because if they do, the buyer has a recourse if they don't like the item for whatever reason.

Even if you go to live auctions where memorabilia or anything is being sold, the items are sold "as is, where is" regardless of any COAs.

There are always going to be differences of opinion on the authenticity of an item, even the so called experts disagree on many items.

I seriously doubt this industry or authenticators will ever be regulated.

The only regulation there is, is via the money in your pocket.

Doesn't the original post in this thread, however, show that it's possible to sue auction houses successfully for selling forgeries? Might there then be a way, via multiple, similar suits against one auction house, or via one monster suit encompassing a whole pile of forgeries, to show a pattern that ultimately compels the house to divulge the consignors/forgers?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

Doesn't the original post in this thread, however, show that it's possible to sue auction houses successfully for selling forgeries? Might there then be a way, via multiple, similar suits against one auction house, or via one monster suit encompassing a whole pile of forgeries, to show a pattern that ultimately compels the house to divulge the consignors/forgers?

Actually, Karl, the original lawsuit was against AutographCentral (Bryan Slaven). AutographCentral isn't an auction house.

Bryan Slaven paid Chris Morales as an expert witness. In the end Bryan Slaven issued Mr. Lovert Bassett a full refund and paid Morales a hefty amount to testify on behalf of AutographCentral. That didn't work out too well.

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Actually, Karl, the original lawsuit was against AutographCentral (Bryan Slaven). AutographCentral isn't an auction house.

Bryan Slaven paid Chris Morales as an expert witness. In the end Bryan Slaven issued Mr. Lovert Bassett a full refund and paid Morales a hefty amount to testify on behalf of AutographCentral. That didn't work out too well.

Okay, but my point was that you apparently can successfully sue another party for selling you a forged autograph if you can reasonably prove it's a fake - and I'm guessing it wouldn't matter if the other party advised up front that you buy their autos at your own risk.

So what might happen if an individual or group buys 200 diverse autos from an outfit like Coach's Corner, sues them, refuses a refund but instead seeks some kind of damages, and proves 200 of 200 are fake. Might that open the door to further investigation of the company and its consignors? I'm assuming that once the consignors are divulged, and it turns out there are just 3 or 4 guys providing hundreds of fakes auction after auction, that it might mean game over?

[danc]

The new CCSA is up and running already...Morales has authenticated...1919 Black Sox ball, Davy Crockett, Pretty Boy Floyd, Clyde Barrow, Bonnie Parker, Elliot Ness, 1894 sheet with Anson, Bugsy Siegel, Babyface Nelson, 1925 Giants bat with Mathewson, Babe Ruth signed hat, Beatles signed ball, Josh Gibson ball, 1939 Hall Of Fame Induction ball...

89 items in total.

DanC

[mr2686]

you just have to love fake 1919 Blacksox baseballs that look like they were signed yesterday, and that have a nicely penned Joe Jackson on them.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by danc

The new CCSA is up and running already...Morales has authenticated...1919 Black Sox ball, Davy Crockett, Pretty Boy Floyd, Clyde Barrow, Bonnie Parker, Elliot Ness, 1894 sheet with Anson, Bugsy Siegel, Babyface Nelson, 1925 Giants bat with Mathewson, Babe Ruth signed hat, Beatles signed ball, Josh Gibson ball, 1939 Hall Of Fame Induction ball...

89 items in total.

DanC

The total number of signatures is 319. According to Mr. Bassett's email, Mr. Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, testified that he spends 2-3 hours examining each signature at $75.00 per item. 89 items at $75.00 a pop equals $6.675.00. He examined 319 signatures at a minimum of 2 hours per signature totals 638 hours "forensically examining" those 89 items. That breaks down to $10.46 per hour. Let's say that Mr. Morales only spent one hour examining each signature. That breaks down to $20.92 per hour.

If any of my numbers here are incorrect, Mr. Morales, please feel free to correct me.

[tinkereversandme]

The problem is that these people involved have gotten away with as long as they have, that they think they will get away with it forever. Just look at some of this s--t? Who is the person supplying them with this Gangster stuff? Wow! Another Bonnie and Clyde? Didn't they get lambasted the first time by a Bonnie And Clyde expert who called them out on their site and now another? This is just brazen, mocking us all...

I talked to a Federal Prosecutor...and isn't there a plot to deceive? A facilitator (or an entity) that exists to defraud?

It's like they strive to place the same holy objects every single month in their auctions and will they the authenticators or the consignors ever be shocked if there is a bust. How can they be, or has the mind set been put in place that they believe nothing will ever bring them down? Let's just all hope, then celebrate.

Regards,

Larry

[steve B]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

The total number of signatures is 319. According to Mr. Bassett's email, Mr. Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, testified that he spends 2-3 hours examining each signature at $75.00 per item. 89 items at $75.00 a pop equals $6.675.00. He examined 319 signatures at a minimum of 2 hours per signature totals 638 hours "forensically examining" those 89 items. That breaks down to $10.46 per hour. Let's say that Mr. Morales only spent one hour examining each signature. That breaks down to $20.92 per hour.

If any of my numbers here are incorrect, Mr. Morales, please feel free to correct me.

Some more interesting math.

638 hours is roughly 26 1/2 full days. Or if we go on a 10 hour workday, 63.8 days. If it's a typical month for him he must be spending much less than even 1 hour on each one.

Steve B

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by steve B

Some more interesting math.

638 hours is roughly 26 1/2 full days. Or if we go on a 10 hour workday, 63.8 days. If it's a typical month for him he must be spending much less than even 1 hour on each one.

Steve B

Yes, and that's only his services for Coach's Corner Auctions. What about the other 5-7 companies he "Forensically Examines" for? There's that other site (that shall remain nameless) in which a minimum of 10 signatures a day are "Forensically Examined" by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator. That's 300 signatures a month. At one hour of examination per signature that's 300 hours (12 1/2 days).

[Big Dave]

No authenticator spends that kind of time on a signature(s), and that includes all the well known national companies.

Most of the time it is just a visual that gets an item rejected or passed, or who has already authenticated the item, or who you know.


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[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

No authenticator spends that kind of time on a signature(s), and that includes all the well known national companies.

Most of the time it is just a visual that gets an item rejected or passed, or who has already authenticated the item, or who you know.


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Dave, that's my point. Chris Morales is not an authenticator, he is a "Forensic Investigator" as per his website and his COA. There is a big difference between a "Forensic Investigator" and "Autograph Authenticator."

When I communicated with a number of FDE's (Forensic Document Examiners) and inquired about examining signatures (vintage) on a baseball, the ones that responded wrote that the first two items they would start with would be the substrate (the baseball) and the ink. That's what "forensic" people do.

What "Forensic" analysis does Chris Morales really perform when he can't even determine that certain signatures were traced? Think about that.