Real or Fake?

[bobbvc]

Better Scans...

[docpatlv]

Bob,

I am almost 100% certain that these are well made fakes. The key is, as others have stated, the embossed areas should show through to the other side (reverse). I fairly recently had some discussions with Rob Lifson about these and pretty much came up with the conclusion that they are well made fakes.

Mike

Edited to add image: From the front it appears to be embossed, but the reverse should show the results of embossing similar to the cigar label pictured below

[Jaybird]

Also, the one in REA had vertical lines in the gold area looking like corduroy. The "reprint" one does not have that level of detail.

[bobbvc]

Front looks but doesn't feel embossed. I have a friend who owns a printing shop that can get some pretty detailed scans and color/ink separations. I'm going to take it to him next week. I'm not convinced it's real, but could go either way at this point. If it's fake, well done. Reminds me of some of those Helmar Brewing repros/art projects on Ebay. Seems like the seller has a liberal return policy at least. He said he found two in a page of an old book. I got the second chance offer. Thought it worth the risk.

[docpatlv]

Bob,

Like I stated earlier, the embossing does not show through to the back. If it were legitimately embossed, you would see evidence on the reverse.

Mike

[bobbvc]

Mike, What I'm saying is it's not embossed at all. It just looks like it a little.

[docpatlv]

Bob,

The reason I believe it to be fake is that on the close-ups you showed, it looks like it is embossed, but does not feel like it is embossed is because the image is printed from a legitimate band. The dots around his image and the wavy lines that extend out are produced from being embossed. If the band had not undergone embossing, the circle of dots and wavy lines would not be there.

Below are two legitimate band from REA or Mastro...



This third image will more precisely illustrate why I think it is fake...



You can see on the last image where the embossing is off centered. There is no circular pattern present without the embossing. The image you provided shows the circular embossing pattern and wavy lines extending from Wagner's image. If they were truly embossed, the indentations would be present on the reverse.

Also note the taper of the legit bands on the left side. They are more tapered upwards and down as they extend out. The one you pictured is more straight across. I know that if these were hand cut, there might be some degree of variance. But the fact alone concerning the embossing is enough for me to believe it is fake.

If you want, you can PM me and I can give you more details. I just don't want to see you get burned. I did provide this same info to Rob Lifson and we kind of agreed that they are not authentic. Whoever made them did a real nice job, but IMO not worth the monetary risk to hold on to it.

Mike