Autographs- Do you collect? Do your care?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by parker1b2

Oh and Scott Garner, I have heard so many horror stories from Albert "don't call me Joey" Belle, but when my brother, me and a whole bunch of other kids at the time met him outside the Skydome when he was with Cleveland, he couldn't have been nicer. Signed for everyone for about an hour and was nice. Signed 3 times for me. But that is the only good experience I think anyone ever had with him.

I never really had any problem here in Cleveland with Albert either. Maybe we were just lucky. Albert could be the nicest person in the world when he wanted to be, unfortunately he had a very short fuse. If he didn't have a good game, or even if a reporter asked him the wrong question in the locker room after the game, you'd have been better off to stay away. Problem is, you never knew which Albert you were getting. Dealing with Albert was like trying to pet a stray dog, sometimes it works out, and other times you're gonna get bit.

Anyways, here in Cleveland we were lucky to have some very classy and accessible players back in the 90's. Omar, Nagy, Thome, Sandy Alomar, so on and so on. Just hanging out near the parking lot you were guaranteed great auto's. Anyone from the best player to the worst. They all signed.

[mjkm90]

I greatly appreciate autographs and have collected a couple dozen over the years of retired players. While I have not purchased any new examples in years due to a shift in interest to other display pieces, I would not shy away from them. I agree with several posters here that some of the fun would be the education process regarding authentic signatures and the hunt.

A little side bar here. There are several guys playing today who's signature I would love to have, but you cant read the damn things. I don't want any autographs in my collection that a person off the street can't make out with a little effort. Penmanship is a rapidly fading away. Does this bother any of you?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

I greatly appreciate autographs and have collected a couple dozen over the years of retired players. While I have not purchased any new examples in years due to a shift in interest to other display pieces, I would not shy away from them. I agree with several posters here that some of the fun would be the education process regarding authentic signatures and the hunt.

A little side bar here. There are several guys playing today who's signature I would love to have, but you cant read the damn things. I don't want any autographs in my collection that a person off the street can't make out with a little effort. Penmanship is a rapidly fading away. Does this bother any of you?

Mike,
I couldn't agree with you more re: celebrity penmanship rapidly fading. FWIW, there are so few current athletes that have an autograph that you can even read that it really makes you wonder if it's even worth getting them at all....

Maybe it's all part of a master plan to create an autograph that no collector would even want...

My own opinion is that our current incessant use of computers and PDA's has distanced us from the practice of the art of writing writing with a pen. I actually think of this every time I attempt to write something longhand; my penmanship has taken a serious hit due to lack of practice. When you think about it, the younger athlete has mostly spent their life using computers and a keyboard to complete school projects that our generation always did in longhand with a pen...

I believe that is one of the reasons that I am drawn to vintage autographs signed with a steel-tipped fountain pen and great penmanship.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

I believe that is one of the reasons that I am drawn to vintage autographs signed with a steel-tipped fountain pen and great penmanship.

Absolutely, Scott.

(BTW, fountain pen nibs were (and still are) made of gold, not steel. Kinda makes ya wonder--if JSA knows so little about writing implements... )

[mr2686]

I love collecting autographs. There's just something about having an item that you know was touched and "created" by the player. I started collecting autographs as a kid at Dodger games. Morphed in to collecting only Hall of famers in the 80's and 90's, but have now turned my attention to autographs of members of famous teams. Every once in awhile, when I have a bad experience with a player at a show, I wonder why I still collect. Then, something happens that reminds me. Last week, I sent an autograph request to Tex Clevenger from the 61 Yankees. I sent a letter asking him to sign two enclosed 3x5 cards (one just in case the first one was smudged etc). He not only signed both perfectly, he also enclosed a signed Ron Lewis postcard and a 1963 Topps card. He response came back within a week. Honestly, I couldn't have been happier if I had found a great price on an authentic Babe Ruth autograph.

[HexsHeroes]

.
For me, it’s about the thrill of the hunt, the joy of success, and the pain of the loss. For some, it’s about being passionate about something that touches a memory or inter-vibe. For many, it’s about the beauty, the ownership, and the fraternity.

I’ve always loved vintage baseball; even as a youth. I often had “games” featuring lineups of vintage all-stars versus modern stars. Bob Gibson versus Ty Cobb. Christy Mathewson versus Mickey Mantle. And there was no doubt that I was bias towards the vintage stars. So vintage card collecting was a natural fit.

But my ah-ha moment regarding vintage autographs occurred the day I heard of the passing of 1940’s Detroit Tigers pitcher Johnny Gorsica. For whatever reason, that news stung. At that moment, I had recalled that Sports Collectors digest had published an interview with Johnny G. just a summer or two prior. I realized upon hearing that news that many physical links to vintage baseballs pass were being lost nearly every day. That the individuals who played against historic baseballs best, and who could tell personal stories of such encounters, were dying off. And I felt a need to save a physical part of those ballplayers. Something they touched. Something they shared. And so started my efforts to collect the autographs of vintage Detroit Tigers ballplayers (which evolved to include other Tigers team personnel too).

Thirteen or so years later, I’m still at it. I have my good days, and then those days when I consider giving up the pursuit. It’s gotten to the point where a successful collecting year is now defined by being able to cross just one name off my want list. Not that the year was a complete failure. There are certainly all of those wonderful and rarely encountered non-Tigers autographs (or duplicates) that were added to my collection.

Forgeries are a problem. No doubt about it. But that is just one of the obstacles or challenges encountered in the hunt. But like many long term hunts (passions), an education process has occurred. I’d like to think that I am alittle better at judging the possible genuineness of an autograph than when I first started. I certainly would not pass myself as an expert or as being even minimally qualified to authenticate. There are too many talented individuals in the world, who have far reaching access to vintage materials and tools, and world-wide markets for effectively selling their misrepresented goods. I’d like to believe (foolishly?) that those individuals have focused their efforts on reproducing autographed items with the greatest dollar return (collector/dealer demand), and not the very obscure, and/or thinly collected. So if it were true that 90% of all autographs are forgeries, I pray that the percentage of obscure/thinly collected autographs forgeries might be just an extremely small portion of that 90% figure. It is quite possible that some of the obscure individual autographs I have obtained were not actually signed by those individuals. I would be a fool to think otherwise. But that does not deter me because as long as the passion burns and my memory of the passing of Johnny Gorsica remains fresh, I continue to hunt and to look forward to success.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

.
For me, it’s about the thrill of the hunt, the joy of success, and the pain of the loss. For some, it’s about being passionate about something that touches a memory or inter-vibe. For many, it’s about the beauty, the ownership, and the fraternity.

I’ve always loved vintage baseball; even as a youth. I often had “games” featuring lineups of vintage all-stars versus modern stars. Bob Gibson versus Ty Cobb. Christy Mathewson versus Mickey Mantle. And there was no doubt that I was bias towards the vintage stars. So vintage card collecting was a natural fit.

But my ah-ha moment regarding vintage autographs occurred the day I heard of the passing of 1940’s Detroit Tigers pitcher Johnny Gorsica. For whatever reason, that news stung. At that moment, I had recalled that Sports Collectors digest had published an interview with Johnny G. just a summer or two prior. I realized upon hearing that news that many physical links to vintage baseballs pass were being lost nearly every day. That the individuals who played against historic baseballs best, and who could tell personal stories of such encounters, were dying off. And I felt a need to save a physical part of those ballplayers. Something they touched. Something they shared. And so started my efforts to collect the autographs of vintage Detroit Tigers ballplayers (which evolved to include other Tigers team personnel too).

Thirteen or so years later, I’m still at it. I have my good days, and then those days when I consider giving up the pursuit. It’s gotten to the point where a successful collecting year is now defined by being able to cross just one name off my want list. Not that the year was a complete failure. There are certainly all of those wonderful and rarely encountered non-Tigers autographs (or duplicates) that were added to my collection.

Forgeries are a problem. No doubt about it. But that is just one of the obstacles or challenges encountered in the hunt. But like many long term hunts (passions), an education process has occurred. I’d like to think that I am alittle better at judging the possible genuineness of an autograph than when I first started. I certainly would not pass myself as an expert or as being even minimally qualified to authenticate. There are too many talented individuals in the world, who have far reaching access to vintage materials and tools, and world-wide markets for effectively selling their misrepresented goods. I’d like to believe (foolishly?) that those individuals have focused their efforts on reproducing autographed items with the greatest dollar return (collector/dealer demand), and not the very obscure, and/or thinly collected. So if it were true that 90% of all autographs are forgeries, I pray that the percentage of obscure/thinly collected autographs forgeries might be just an extremely small portion of that 90% figure. It is quite possible that some of the obscure individual autographs I have obtained were not actually signed by those individuals. I would be a fool to think otherwise. But that does not deter me because as long as the passion burns and my memory of the passing of Johnny Gorsica remains fresh, I continue to hunt and to look forward to success.

Well said, Vincent!!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

(BTW, fountain pen nibs were (and still are) made of gold, not steel.

That's not entirely true. They can be made of either metal. I've owned several of both.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by JBirkholm

That's not entirely true. They can be made of either metal. I've owned several of both.

Good ones are, and always have been, gold. Cheap $2.00 Schaefer cartridge pens are steel. You'd be hard-pressed to find a 1920s-vintage pen with anything but a gold nib. Either way, JSA's statement that an item was signed with a "steel-tipped fountain pen" is absurd; there's no way to tell what the nib was made of (although the most likely metal is gold.) I maintain it's just another example (albeit a small one) of authenticator ignorance.

[tinkereversandme]

I disagree with David in that if something is forged 90% of the time, like a Babe Ruth signature (which I have come to understand is a roughly accurate number) and the people that we most often go to to get our opinions aren't doing the hobby justice (crooked?), then how can this be a healthy collectibles area and how can there be buyer confidence down the line?

If you know what you are doing, you should be safe, but how will you convince someone down the road that you differ in the education you have had in coming to the conclusion that it's authentic that differs from all the rest of the crooks?

You also won't convince anyone that there is just as much fraud in cards as autographs. Trimming, sure, some and overgrading, yes, but an overgraded card still has value, as a forgery has none.

As far as the question at hand: I used to have great joy in waiting in autograph lines to obtain my signatures in person, but today, the prices, attitudes and even mentioned here, the look of the signatures mean little to me. My heroes are dead and if I had a choice between a Ruth signature and a Ruth 1933 Goudey (equal value), I would go for the card.

Regards,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

There are several guys playing today who's signature I would love to have, but you cant read the damn things. I don't want any autographs in my collection that a person off the street can't make out with a little effort. Penmanship is a rapidly fading away. Does this bother any of you?

+1

I was disappointed to meet a few guys who were nice but whose penmanship was so poor that I had no idea what I was seeing. Shawn Green is one. Nice guy, rotten signature. A bunch of circular squiggles. Terrible Terry Norris (boxer) too. Super amenable, nicest fellow you could ever hope to meet but he must write in Chinese.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I was disappointed to meet a few guys who were nice but whose penmanship was so poor that I had no idea what I was seeing. Shawn Green is one. Nice guy, rotten signature.

Todd Helton is another. His signature isn't that far off of Green's, but there is at least a method to Todd's madness. Shawn's makes no sense whatsoever. Pujols is another that kinda bothers me, his signature just seems lazy. I also hate when players use just their initials. Manny Ramirez does that alot, Kenny Lofton and Frank Thomas both seemed to go through periods of time where they'd just basically initial things..

[margoaepi]

Sean Green was an incredibly nice guy, and I honestly don't think his sig is that bad. For me, the sig that I was most excited to get and the most disappointed to receive was Ryne Sandberg . . . beyond illegible.

[perezfan]

This one (a future HOFer) has always struck my funny bone...

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by perezfan

This one (a future HOFer) has always struck my funny bone...

Isn't that signature a piece of crap? I'll fork over $200 for that (not!)

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I never really had any problem here in Cleveland with Albert either. Maybe we were just lucky. Albert could be the nicest person in the world when he wanted to be, unfortunately he had a very short fuse. If he didn't have a good game, or even if a reporter asked him the wrong question in the locker room after the game, you'd have been better off to stay away. Problem is, you never knew which Albert you were getting. Dealing with Albert was like trying to pet a stray dog, sometimes it works out, and other times you're gonna get bit.

Anyways, here in Cleveland we were lucky to have some very classy and accessible players back in the 90's. Omar, Nagy, Thome, Sandy Alomar, so on and so on. Just hanging out near the parking lot you were guaranteed great auto's. Anyone from the best player to the worst. They all signed.

Jonathan and David,
I've been collecting in person autographs for long enough that I know that anyone can have a good or a bad day. I've always believed that approach and timing are everything with regards to successfully "getting your man" (or woman).

I had always heard from other fellow autograph hawks in So Cal that Belle was one of the genuine "toughees" to get in person. Albert had established himself as an impact player with his 50- 50 season in 1995 (50 HR's and 52 Doubles). I took it on as a challenge to try to get him in 1996.

As part of my job as a National Sales Manager for a pharmaceutical company I trained many of my incoming sales reps at the Doubletree Hotel in Anaheim, California. The Doubletree was and still is the place that many visiting teams stayed at when coming in to play the California Angels. As circumstance would have it, I was training one of my new sales reps when the visiting Indians were in town at the tail end of the season. Experience had taught me that Doubletree was always a great place to get visiting player autographs as it was away from the stadium and eliminated competition and conflict from the equation. Anyway, I attempted to get Albert as he was leaving the Doubletree on the way to the stadium. Albert was the last of the Indians to leave the hotel and he was by himself. I spotted him from across the lobby and followed him out the front door where he was standing alone waiting for a cab. There literally wasn't anyone else but Albert and me for 75 feet in any direction. Normally an ideal setup to get your autograph. I asked him politely if he would mind signing a ball for me. His response was a screwed up, pissed off face and he yelled at me "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME, MAN!!" I said no problem, and that was the all she wrote.

Over the years I have asked literally hundreds of people for their autographs. I have been shut down by a few (seriously not many), but have always at least been treated politely. I'm happy to hear that both of you had quality experiences with Albert. I absolutely did not.... Yikes!!

[parker1b2]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Jonathan and David,
I've been collecting in person autographs for long enough that I know that anyone can have a good or a bad day. I've always believed that approach and timing are everything with regards to successfully "getting your man" (or woman).

I had always heard from other fellow autograph hawks in So Cal that Belle was one of the genuine "toughees" to get in person. Albert had established himself as an impact player with his 50- 50 season in 1995 (50 HR's and 52 Doubles). I took it on as a challenge to try to get him in 1996.

As part of my job as a National Sales Manager for a pharmaceutical company I trained many of my incoming sales reps at the Doubletree Hotel in Anaheim, California. The Doubletree was and still is the place that many visiting teams stayed at when coming in to play the California Angels. As circumstance would have it, I was training one of my new sales reps when the visiting Indians were in town at the tail end of the season. Experience had taught me that Doubletree was always a great place to get visiting player autographs as it was away from the stadium and eliminated competition and conflict from the equation. Anyway, I attempted to get Albert as he was leaving the Doubletree on the way to the stadium. Albert was the last of the Indians to leave the hotel and he was by himself. I spotted him from across the lobby and followed him out the front door where he was standing alone waiting for a cab. There literally wasn't anyone else but Albert and me for 75 feet in any direction. Normally an ideal setup to get your autograph. I asked him politely if he would mind signing a ball for me. His response was a screwed up, pissed off face and he yelled at me "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME, MAN!!" I said no problem, and that was the all she wrote.

Over the years I have asked literally hundreds of people for their autographs. I have been shut down by a few (seriously not many), but have always at least been treated politely. I'm happy to hear that both of you had quality experiences with Albert. I absolutely did not.... Yikes!!

Now that sounds like most of the Albert Belle stories I have heard...

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by parker1b2

Now that sounds like most of the Albert Belle stories I have heard...

Yeah, that sounds like most I've heard as well. Luckily, I never had one of those experiences.