Blyleven & Alomar get in the HOF

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jay- I think you are selectively picking stats of Blyleven's that are not among his best. Everything you cited suggests he was borderline, but when you consider the 287 wins and 3000+ strikeouts, I believe he is deserving.

It would be like saying Nolan Ryan doesn't belong because he had a mediocre won-lost record and never won a Cy Young, but conveniently leaving out the 5714 strikeouts and the 7 no-hitters. You have to look at the whole picture, not just those stats that fall a little short.

I agree. In another thread I used Nolan Ryan as an example of using certain stats to question his HOF status (for the record I of course think he is a 1st ballot HOF).

Nolan Ryan had 9 seasons where he was a 500 or worse pitcher and he never won a CY Young award. Blyleven also had a much better K/BB ratio.

You really have to look at the whole picture. All Star games and Cy Young awards are a bit overrated IMO. Marichal never won a Cy Young award!!!!

[bigtrain]

I wish that we could turn back the clock ,take the politics out of it and make the HOF for just the immortals of the game. We can't. Like it or not, the HOF is not the Hall of Immortals and hasn't been since almost the beginning. There are a lot of players enshrined who were just very, very good, not great. We could all rattle off a dozen or more questionable selections and I don't say this to start a debate about any one of them. Tinker, Evers, Chance and Pennock inducted in the 40s. Wallace, Maranville, Schalk in the 50s. Rixey, Faber, Grimes, Hoyt, Haines, Marquard, Hafey, Lindstrom, George Kelly, etc. My point is that although Blyleven would not have gotten my vote, his election does not dilute the HOF. That was done long ago. Blyleven was a very, very good pitcher and its hard to argue with 60 shutouts.

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Blyleven was a very, very good pitcher and its hard to argue with 60 shutouts.

60 Shutouts is impressive. He get's my vote just on that.

[oldjudge]

Barry--Why so much emphasis on strikeouts? An out is an out. If you are a ground ball pitcher with a 3.50 ERA are you any different than a strikeout pitcher with a 3.50 ERA?

[Big Six]

there is a good arguement that ERA is a lousy stat, too...

[barrysloate]

I wouldn't put so much emphasis on strikeouts, but it is a pitching stat that is loved by fans and respected by people who follow the game. Blyleven had 3701 and is 5th all time. Maybe only one of many factors, but a superlative one that is a big part of his career.

Look, as we've said there are at least 100 guys or more that don't belong in the hall, but if you accept the fact that Perry, Sutton, Niekro among others are in, then Blyleven should be too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would rank Perrry well above Niekro and Sutton, and so does Bill James. He had two Cy Youngs and just missed a third, to go with the rest of his stats.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Barry--Why so much emphasis on strikeouts? An out is an out. If you are a ground ball pitcher with a 3.50 ERA are you any different than a strikeout pitcher with a 3.50 ERA?

strikeout is more valuable than a groundout. so is absolute, it doesn't depend on the luck of the ball, the defense behind, or various park factors. a go pitcher can have a 3.50 era this year, but next year it can be 5.00 while pitching the same way. one of the ways to measure a pitcher's true effectiveness now is through his defense-indepedent or fielding-indepedent pitching metrics...pitchers can't really control wins and there's a bit of luck in the traditional era.

[triwak]

I think both are deserving. And I'm already on record with my incredulity about what some consider to be a "watered down" Hall of Fame! Only about ONE percent of the total number of major league players have been enshrined. Using that barometer, it is by far the most difficult HOF of any of the major sports in which to be honored! You may argue for or against any specific player. But I just do not understand this desire for a HOF of only the top 50 players, or whatnot. Come on, really?

[barrysloate]

There are certain glamour statistics and the strikeout is one of them. Why do we see fans in the bleachers bringing K cards to post after each strikeout when the team's ace is on the mound? It just has that status and the fans love them.