NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #7  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:25 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,405
Default

A few answers that may help... or not. Also a bit long.

1) Modern printing won't exactly duplicate old printing because it works differently. So no, there won't be impossible to ID fakes coming off home laser printers anytime soon if ever.

But....As with anything manufactured it's possible to duplicate it.
The problem comes in the math of making a profit from the effort.
Old paper is a bit more brittle from both age and because it was made differently. So you'd have to locate the right materials and get as close as possible to the process used. This isn't that tough. One currency counterfeiter trimmed bills to get the right paper.

Problem 2 is the exact printing method. Lithography? Typograph? Rotogravure? Those were all used on different sets. And each leaves a clue as to which process made the printed item. Now figure that the inks readily available aren't formulated the same way. Far fewer VOCs in modern inks. Some are vegetable rather than oil based. And some of the dyes will be very hard to come by. Once industry moves on from one chemical to a better or cheaper one the old one is mostly unavailable. And with lithography there's a difference between that done with a stone or a plate.

Lots of stuff to reengineer to make it undetectable. And making it even harder are some of the methods of study that are becoming acessible. Like spectography. There's a group of stamps that were known as "china clay paper" The paper looks grayish, and the stamps are rare enough to be worth about $1000 each. Then along comes a couple of people with access to scientific gear and the paper is proven to be just a substandard batch of the normal paper. And the whole lot get delisted from the catalog.

Then there's the cutting, and that takes some equipment and knowledge.
(I'm fairly sure a card could be trimmed in a way that it would pass grading.)

So yes, it's possible to make an exact duplicate of something. But you'd have to expend a huge ammount of time effort and money to do it. Plus you'd have to avoid the simple mistakes fakers usually make like getting a font wrong or producing an impossible T206 front/back combination.

2) Making fake PSA (Or SGC or Beckett or ..) holders would be much easier. But then you'd have the problem of having a card that didn't have a serial # in the PSA database. If the card is worth enough to cover the expense of having fake holders made or of simply buying them from the supplier or one of their shipping guys, eventually a buyer will check the number and find that it's not real. Same with the above mentioned guys that put in fake flips.

3) The very best way to avoid fakes is to handle and I mean physically without slabs or sleeves or anything a bunch of whatever you want to collect. I'd want to experience a few hundred 52 topps before I bought a Mantle. Or a bunch of T206s before buying a high grade HOFer. Rare cards are a bit tougher, but handling a good number of original old cards will give you a feel for what's real or not and just how old a printed item is.

That feel for an sort of intangible "oldness" of things is very important.
Years ago, probably in 1982 or 3 a dealer I knew handed me a fantastic 1951 Mantle. Perfect centering, good color and registration, sharp corners. They just handed it to me and asked my opinion. After the initial wow that's nice, an unease set in pretty quickly. Which led to me saying I couldn't put my finger on it, but It was a very nice fake. Then I got the rest of the story. They'd bought it through the mail and also thought it was fake. so they'd shown it around to a number of dealers and collectors and everyone had the exact same reaction. The suspicions were considered confirmed when they were asked about buying a couple more 51 Mantles, both from the same person. Both also perfect. I think it was destroyed, or they still have it. Today it would be a very dangerous card if it was in a slab.

But don't worry too much, start with a few G-vg raw commons and work into things slowly. You may find that also helps appreciate the really special cards even more.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
 



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 PM.


ebay GSB