CU Thread on Shilling Dealer

[Bosox Blair]

Thanks for the heads-up...and this is a longtime dealer...interesting.

Cheers,
Blair

[chaddurbin]

their response in that thread:

A response from Kruk,

"You have evidence of shill bidding on our accounts? That's surprising, because that is not something we do at all.

Steve


- krukcards"

good enough for me...

and john kruk is too dumb to shill bid, or be a baseball tv analyst.

[calvindog]

Steve seems truly surprised by the accusations. I'm sure it's just a minor misunderstanding.

[glchen]

A lot of negative feedbacks including another that claims shill bidding.

[ethicsprof]

many thanks for sharing.

best,
barry

[D. Bergin]

I have no idea if this is true or not but it seems pretty odd that the key piece of evidence that gets harped on over there is the re-listing of a lot of modern cards.

Kruk has pallets full of a lot of this crap.

Are these alleged shills winning these lots? If so it doesn't make sense because Kruk would have to pay Ebay their share every time this happened and risk taking another loss each time they relisted the same item they are allegedly shilling.

I could also see a lot of flea market and show dealers using them as a source for material, explaining several bidders with recent bid histories of mainly Kruk based bids.

I guess it would all be cleared up if Ebay just made the bidding histories public. Some bidders are just strange. I had one guy bid on one of my auctions last week and retract the bid minutes later and listed the reason as "wrong amount"...........and then he never put another bid in. I was worried it might look like a shill from the outside looking in. If the bids were all made public it would make me feel better, as somebody trying to go about things as honestly as possible.

Makes me defensive every time I read somebody make the broad stroke argument that ALL sellers must be shilling because they couldn't possibly sell something on Ebay at below market value..........which is crap. I've sold plenty of stuff at supposed below market value. It comes with the territory that an item on Ebay with a 7-10 day window is usually going to sell for less then what somebody has it priced in a store setting and has it sitting there for months or years on end, waiting for the "right" buyer to come along.

On the other hand, if they ARE shilling, then burn 'em I guess.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

(1) Are these alleged shills winning these lots? If so it doesn't make sense because Kruk would have to pay Ebay their share every time this happened and risk taking another loss each time they relisted the same item they are allegedly shilling.

(2) Makes me defensive every time I read somebody make the broad stroke argument that ALL sellers must be shilling because they couldn't possibly sell something on Ebay at below market value..........which is crap. I've sold plenty of stuff at supposed below market value. It comes with the territory that an item on Ebay with a 7-10 day window is usually going to sell for less then what somebody has it priced in a store setting and has it sitting there for months or years on end, waiting for the "right" buyer to come along.

Regarding point #1, I think the scam is that if the shill actually wins (not what the seller is going for ideally) then the seller can try a couple things. First, he can contact the underbidder to offer a "second chance" saying that the winner has bailed out. Since the shill has flushed out the very top limit of the underbidder, the seller can try to get the absolute max out of the card. If nobody will bite, the seller reports it to Ebay as a non-paying buyer, and I believe then pays no fees on the listing.

Regarding point #2, I don't think the hunt for shills involved looking for sales below the real market value - quite the opposite. On the other hand, there is the prospect that for certain cards with a limited number of transactions, a fake high bid recorded distorts what people view as the market price, making a subsequent sale of the same or similar card possible at a higher price (even if it is still below the shill price recorded).

Cheers,
Blair

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

their response in that thread:

A response from Kruk,

"You have evidence of shill bidding on our accounts? That's surprising, because that is not something we do at all.

Steve


- krukcards"

good enough for me...

and john kruk is too dumb to shill bid, or be a baseball tv analyst.

I am sure they both enjoy a cheap buffet

[BleedinBlue]

CU just killed the thread on Kruk Cards. I wonder if they threatened legal action?

[bobbyw8469]

Joe O says "never get cheated".....how ironic....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

CU just killed the thread on Kruk Cards. I wonder if they threatened legal action?

It might have got pulled because of a Cease and Desist letter from a lawyer, but CU probably should know better than to be threatened by that. It would be rare, if ever, that they would be liable for what someone says on their board. Sometimes a threat will make folks cave in though. No one, except lawyers, likes legal action.

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by Leon

It might have got pulled because of a Cease and Desist letter from a lawyer, .

Or maybe they are large submitters to PSA.