The evidence against Barry Halper is mounting

[springpin]

I ask this question out of genuine ignorance about uniforms. If these uniforms are not the real deal, where did they come from, or what exactly are they? Are they uniforms used in spring training that never made it to the big leagues? Are they total cut-and-stitch fakes made a month previous to "discovery"? Should we envision some 80-year old seamstress hunched over a sewing machine with orders from some criminal mind to fabricate (literally) a uniform that looks like one worn 70 years previously when she was a child? Is there a "uniform cartel" run by bad guys who just happen to be wickedly handy with a needle and thread? I accept the wisdom and opinions of experts on uniforms to believe their judgments---the uniforms are not what they are claimed to be. OK, but someone please explain where and how these fakes come into existence. Thanks.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by springpin

I ask this question out of genuine ignorance about uniforms. If these uniforms are not the real deal, where did they come from, or what exactly are they? Are they uniforms used in spring training that never made it to the big leagues? Are they total cut-and-stitch fakes made a month previous to "discovery"? Should we envision some 80-year old seamstress hunched over a sewing machine with orders from some criminal mind to fabricate (literally) a uniform that looks like one worn 70 years previously when she was a child? Is there a "uniform cartel" run by bad guys who just happen to be wickedly handy with a needle and thread? I accept the wisdom and opinions of experts on uniforms to believe their judgments---the uniforms are not what they are claimed to be. OK, but someone please explain where and how these fakes come into existence. Thanks.

The uniforms ARE vintage...the question is, are they legitimate. It's pretty easy to stitch a name into a uniform. According to the article the Joe Jax uniform has stitches that are not faded like the rest of the uniform, and that's only one problem among many with that jersey.

[springpin]

Dan,

Thanks. If I understand the meaning of your answer, a uniform is declared to be what someone says it is because of the name of a player stitched somewhere into the uniform. So a given uniform was legitimately from some notable team (e.g., 1919 White Sox), but the critical issue is whether it was actually worn by a particular player (e.g., Jackson)?

Paul

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by springpin

Dan,

Thanks. If I understand the meaning of your answer, a uniform is declared to be what someone says it is because of the name of a player stitched somewhere into the uniform. So a given uniform was legitimately from some notable team (e.g., 1919 White Sox), but the critical issue is whether it was actually worn by a particular player (e.g., Jackson)?

Paul

In the case of the Jackson jersey it appears to not even have been a White Sox jersey at all. Halper acquired the jersey prior to Mark Okkonen's work on the Uniform database when it would have been much easier to pass it off. Halper claims to have acquired it directly from Jackson's wife in the 1950s which has been disputed.

I seem to recall a case where a Frank Chance jersey that was missing the Cubs patch on the breast somehow ended up with a Cubs patch from another jersey of a minor "no-name" guy. The leap of faith one has to take in the high dollar game used memorabilia hobby is not one I think I'd ever risk.

[cobblove]

With this sad example. It makes me think of all those new cards with Game worn Ruth, Dimaggio,Mantle, Ect game used cut cards. now where is the evedence if they are in 1 cm cubes. LOL. Lots of fraud in the game used world.

[jthorn]

The one-cm rags and splinters illustrates what collectors are truly after: hope.

john thorn

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jthorn

The one-cm rags and splinters illustrates what collectors are truly after: hope.

john thorn

I don't think so. IMO most collectors of relic cards don't have a clue as to the "leap of faith" one must take in order to collect game used memorabilia..if Topps says that's a slice of Babe Ruth's bat they believe it without question. Collectors of game used memorabilia are the ones who are after "hope," they are the ones who take the leap of faith. And when there is no hope and faith you can always say that you visited Joe Jackson's widow in the 1950s.