Revisiting the T206 Wagner "strip"

[Rob D.]

Here is a post attributed to Wayne Varner in a previous thread on this subject:

Ted Z and others, I can shed a little light on this proof strip. Back in 1978 Bill Zimpleman, Mike Wheat, Ken Blazek, and myself, Wayne Varner were on a buying trip in the Pittsburgh area and we purchased this strip from a gentleman who had purchased Wagner's house. We bought a number of items he found in the house. I cannot remember all the details, but after we purchased the strip, we had a drawing, and I won the strip. I sold it in 1980 to Barry Helper, who to my knowledge owned the strip until he passed away. I can tell you from holding the strip many times, it is not cards pasted together. Could that have been done at the factory and then potographed to send to Wagner, possibly, but not likely. However it was done, it was definately done at the factory, and has the proof lines like all the proof cards I have ever seen. I have seen the strip on several occasions since Barry passed away and it is in the same orginial condition as when I owned it from 1978 until 1980. There is no question it is orginial and unaltered no matter what anyone says. Hope this helps a little.

Wayne Varner
SHOEBOX CARDS

[GoSoxBoSox]

Thanks Rob.

I have never seen that thread. It's interesting to me after reading it that Ted says the same thing in that thread as he does in this thread. I especially like his post #63 in that thread.
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05-23-2010, 10:10 PM
tedzan
Ted Zanidakis
Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,499

Jon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure I understand your "overlaping" comment ?

The cross-hair proof marks are very precise ID's for aligning the 6-color registration process in the printing of these cards.
Therefore, when these cards are placed adjacent to each other, I fully expect these marks to be in perfect alignment from
card to card.

Everyone has to realize that this is a pre-production piece. These are not completed cards, but thin-film like FRONTS that
I claim were affixed on a horizontal strip. Again, I repeat, the inconsistency of the colors of these 5 cards with respect to
each other is a total PRINTING IMPOSSIBILITY. I dare anyone to show me an UNCUT sheet, or strip with "crazy" colors as
these; and, lines between the cards ? ? ? ?


Regarding your last statement......."Even if you could imagine all 5 cards being precisely cut so that they could be pasted
on a strip together in such a way that all proof marks line up (I'm sure that would be an extremely difficult process itself)"

Jon....we are talking about the foremost Lithographic Co. in America back then. These printers were world class craftsmen.
This "junk" that we are mulling over here is incidental compared to the large pieces of complex artwork that they produced
on a daily basis during that era.


TED Z
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You posted Wayne's post #68 from that thread. Ted never posted on that thread again after Wayne posted. Very interesting.

[tedzan]

WOW !

We have a new Gotcha Tandem (Rob D & Tom P) in motion here to bust Ted's chops. When you have nothing constructive or meaningful
to bring to the discussion, you try to go after the messenger.

Hey Tom, you don't know me....and, by your sarcastic posts here towards me, I don't care to know you. This last statement of yours.....
is quite ridiculous, as it shows either how ignorant you are, or worst yet, it's a sign of a sick mind.

"You posted Wayne's post #68 from that thread. Ted never posted on that thread again after Wayne posted. Very interesting. "


Look, I did not respond to Wayne Varner's post (dated 6/12/10) since my family and I were vacationing in Virginia that week.

But, I'll tell you what, NEWBIE ! ....the Philly Show is next month and Wayne Varner's booth is next to my booth. We will have a "knock-
down, drag-out" battle discussing this Wagner artifact....and, I'll be sure to fill you in with the blow-by-blow details.


T-Rex TED

[GoSoxBoSox]

Ted,

You can't admit that you "might" be wrong just this once? You can say what you will about my written tone but I was just telling the facts as I saw them after examining the card thoroughly. I wasn't actually trying to sound scarcastic. Nothing I said here is not true.

There is no need to attack Wayne in Philly for giving an opinion different from yours either. It's just a debate over baseball cards.

I'm not sure why you signed your post "T-Rex Ted"? Is that another dinosaur joke about your age or something? I would hope so. Because if it was supposed to be some kind of a threat it was a classless attempt over a trivial matter.

Regards,

Newbie

[Rob D.]

nm

[Al C.risafulli]

Nm, not trying to start a fight.

Al

[FrankWakefield]

Some folks here actually post meaningful, erudite, insightful posts about old cards... exclusively or primarily. Some folks sit at their pc's like buzzards, waiting to swoop down on others, but they seldom if ever actually post anything that is about cards. Maybe about something tangentially associated to cards, but hardly ever about cards, for they know not about them.


Who of us have not bought something from someone who maybe didn't fully, completely understand and appreciate what they had? Many of us.

Who of us have ever seen a slab that was incorrect as to the identity of what was inside. Most of us.

So what a former owner thought isn't a slam-dunk argument-ender. Nor is a slip on a slab.

Wayne Varner is a good guy, he's quite knowledgeable about old ball cards. Ted Z knows a right smart, too. Neither are infallible. SGC certainly isn't infallible. For those of you who have total faith that SGC got it right, I wish you well. Wayne saying it's one way doesn't resolve it in my mind. It was years ago when he owned it, I don't know he was particularly looking for the paste-up aspect of it, sometimes an item's flaws and shortcomings aren't apparent to its owner... Wayne mentions proof lines, I don't see those. The proof marks I've seen on T206 proofs look like this " + ", not this " l ".

I've not seen this piece in person. It would have been a good reason to have gone to the National, but there are buzzards there (a good reason to avoid the National). I'm not certain Ted's right about it, but at this time I think similarly, but I'm not certain. I'm fairly sure it isn't a "proof", notwithstanding SGC's label. The traditional proof cross-marks aren't there.

We can go back and forth forever. Peace.

[martyogelvie]

FYI
Ted has been using 'T-Rex' on his signature for a long long time...

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Wayne mentions proof lines, I don't see those. The proof marks I've seen on T206 proofs look like this " + ", not this " l ".

You really don't see the "+" signs?
They're pretty obvious.