T206 Red Kleinow (Boston) DRUM defies it's 460-only series status ?

[justmike]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'm away for the w/e and do not have my data on the Kleinow cards. I will get back to you when I return.

All I can say for now, is that after 30 years of collecting T206's and having completed 5 sets (no Plank's
or Wagner's), I have never seen any 350 series backs on the Boston version.

The reported DRUM took me by surprise. The fellow who reported this card had it back in the early 1980's.

Regards,
TED Z

Ted could you please pm me asap about something rather important.I tried to pm you but your inbox is full.

[tedzan]

Justmike

Please email me directly at......

tedzan11@comcast.net

TZ

[Abravefan11]

Ted - Enjoy your weekend and get back to me when you can. Here's my line of thinking:

The Kleinow Catching card is one player image issued during the 350 and 460 series. Sometime during the distribution the team designation was changed from New York to Boston but this didn't change the distribution pattern.

Other players followed this same distribution pattern and I'll use Konetchy (Glove Low) as an example.

Both Klienow Catching (Boston or New York) and Konetchy (Glove Low) have been confirmed with the following backs.

Piedmont 350 (New York)
Sweet Caporal 350 (New York)
Sovereign 350 "Apple Green" (New York)
Polar Bear (New York)
Old Mill (New York & Boston)
Tolstoi (New York & Boston)
EPDG (Boston)
Drum 350 (Boston)
Piedmont 350/460 (Boston)
Sweet Caporal 350/460 (Boston)
Cycle 460 (Boston)
Lenox (Boston)
Red Hindu (Boston)
Broad Leaf 460 (Boston)

Konetchy (Glove Low) is confirmed with an American Beauty 350 No Frame back the only one not confirmed with Kleinow Catching. Based on this I believe an AB 350 NF Kleinow Boston could and should exist.

[tedzan]

Kleinow (Boston) and F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) are Sovereign NO-PRINTS.

Furthermore, I must say that using Konetchy as a baseline for your comparison with Kleinow is not the best example.
Konetchy remained on the same team during this timeline, while Kleinow switched teams.

When I get back, I should be able to find some data that shows that Kleinow (Boston) is virtually impossible to exist
with an AB 350 back.

If I recall correctly, the timeline for the printing of DRUM's and BROAD LEAF 460 and Red HINDU coincided quite closely.
And, this most likely explains why Kleinow exists with a DRUM back. In fact, many of the BL 460/Red HINDU T206's are
also found with the DRUM back.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

If you categorize the New York and Boston Kleinow Catching as two different cards then the comparison to Konetchy wouldn't work. But as I've stated before I don't think they are two different cards, simply one card with a team designation change. When you look at them from this perspective they follow the 350-460 distribution exactly with the exception of a confirmed AB 350 NF with either Boston or New York.

I feel if and when a Kleinow is confirmed with an AB 350 NF back it will more than likely be a Boston example as the AB 350 NF's from this distribution group mirrored the Drum group.

[tedzan]

First....my discovery that Joe Doyle, Kleinow (NY), Rhoades (arm extended) and F. Smith (Chicago) were intended
as additional 350/460 subjects (ala apple green backs in my Sovereign set) is revealing, in that none of these four
subjects exist with either AB 350 Frame or AB 350 No Frame backs.

Now, if you are inclined to suggest that some day these 4 cards will surface with these AB 350 backs....then I can
only reply that it is impossible to prove a negative.

Furthermore, regarding the Kleinow (Boston) card....it appears to me that you are trying to equate a DRUM back to
an AB 350 No Frame back. This does not jive, as DRUM backs are a magnitude greater in scarcity than AB 350 backs.
If we know of one Kleinow/DRUM, then we would have already seen several AB 350 Kleinow's.

The scarcest T206 is the Joe Doyle error card and we have confirmed 8 of them. All the other T206 permutations are
catalogued by now (after Millions of cards that have been sampled). Perhaps, the only exceptions to this are BL 460,
DRUM, and Red HINDU cards.

No, there is no way that Kleinow will show up with an AB 350 back....and, I'm willing to place a bet on that fact.


TED Z

[wonkaticket]

Ted love to see a scan...here's mine.



Who knows perhaps I will need that Murphy Red Hindu after all...with all these surprises.