Who is your favorite pre-1930 player and why?

[tesitzes24]

I just started reading the book Crazy '08 by Cait Murphy, and it is a pretty good read so far.

So, who is your favorite pre-1930 player and why? What have you read/heard about them that made them stick out to you?

[PolarBear]

Mordecai Peter Centennial Three Finger Brown.

The name alone sets him apart.

At his peak from 1906-1909, he was one of the best, if not the best, pitcher in baseball.

He owned the head to head match ups with Christy Mathewson. There's a newspaper article quote in Crazy '08 that sums it up. "The only way the Giants could beat the Cubs is if they find a pitcher with two fingers" (paraphrase)


He seems like a humble down to earth regular guy. Definitely one of the most underrated HOFers in my opinion.

[Robextend]

My favorite all time pre-war ballplayer is Rube Waddell.

Besides being one of, if not the most eccentric figure of his day, he was also one of the best pitchers of all time.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by tesitzes24

I just started reading the book Crazy '08 by Cait Murphy, and it is a pretty good read so far.

So, who is your favorite pre-1930 player and why? What have you read/heard about them that made them stick out to you?

I absolutely loved that book ....and I hate reading, as a rule.

I love Mathewson - everything about him. My first T206 was a Matty White cap; my best condition T206 is my SGC 80 Matty portrait; I named my second son Mathewson and we all call him Matty; and there's always this song lyric.....

There's only one Christy that I know at all
One Christy that I ever saw
He's the one who discovered the fadeaway ball
And he pitches for Muggsy McGraw

Baseball... Baseball
Ain't it a wonderful game?
Old Christy Colum'
Found this country, by gum
But the extras don't carry his name.
If old man Columbus
Had sat in the stand
Had seen Matty pitching that
"Fader" so grand
He'd have said,
"Boys, I'm glad I discovered this land."
Gee! it's a wonderful game.

[ghostmarcelle]

I have long been enamored with Charleston who earned contemporary comparisons to Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth and was also said to be the athletic equal of Jim Thorpe.



The following poem was written to eulogize Oscar Charleston by his former teammate Gentleman Dave Malarcher:

OSCAR CHARLESTON by David J. Malarcher, third baseman, Indianapolis ABCs

Sleep, Charlie! Thou, the great, the strong!
Within the depths of mud and mire!
While high above the diamond throng
The sterling statue in retire
Proclaims the splendor of thy game,
Thy paramount, unequaled fame!

Thou were the best who roamed the field!
Thy stalwart fingers never failed
The batters’ erring fate to seal,
The pitcher’s powers wrought too frail!
Oh! Would thy skill could live always
To stir the sportsman happy praise!

Sleep, Charlie! I, who knew thee well,
Do here declare to Earth and time
In Heaven’s language, thus to tell,
In poignant poetry divine,
The glory of thy destiny
Thus this undying rhyme to thee!

Sleep, Charlie! Now in holy dust!
(As mighty Cobb and Petway rest)
Bearing the praise of all of us,
The diamond’s greatest and the less
Here honor we on thee bestow,
That ages will thy greatness know.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Mordecai Peter Centennial Three Finger Brown.

The name alone sets him apart.

At his peak from 1906-1909, he was one of the best, if not the best, pitcher in baseball.

He owned the head to head match ups with Christy Mathewson. There's a newspaper article quote in Crazy '08 that sums it up. "The only way the Giants could beat the Cubs is if they find a pitcher with two fingers" (paraphrase)


He seems like a humble down to earth regular guy. Definitely one of the most underrated HOFers in my opinion.

Don, good choice.



My choices, both sociopaths:

[Republicaninmass]

Hughie Jennings, very sad end to his life. Crazy on the field with his poses captured in history

[JasonL]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Don, good choice.
My choices, both sociopaths:

[pitchernut]

I know this might be a little clicheish but even considering just as a pitcher alone got to give the nod to George Herman Ruth.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Robextend

My favorite all time pre-war ballplayer is Rube Waddell.

Besides being one of, if not the most eccentric figure of his day, he was also one of the best pitchers of all time.

+1

"He began that year (1903) sleeping in a firehouse in Cadmen, New Jersey and ended it tending bar in a saloon in Wheeling, West Virginia. In between those events he won 22 games for the Philadelphia Athletics, played left end for the Business Men's Rugby Football Club of Grand Rapids, Michigan, toured the nation in a melodrama called The Stain of Guilt, courted, married and became separated from May Wynne Skinner of Lynn, Massachusetts, saved a woman from drowning, accidentally shot a friend through the hand, and was bitten by a lion." -baseball historian Lee Allen

[bbcard1]

Good choices all. I am a Laughing Larry Doyle guy myself, secondbaseman for the Giants. Just an interesting guy and one who history for some fickle reason diminished. Very good leader, recognized as a superstar during his day. Late in life contracted TB and entered a sanitorium. He was the last person to move out once an effective treatment had been developed. Lived 20 years after that.

[Zach Wheat]

Lichtman -

Wow nice Cobby. I have never seen that card before.

Troey - Cobb would have to be my favorite. I wonder what made the guy tick....some of the stories I've read about him make him a one-of-a-kind odd ball. I've walked the same streets Cobb walked in downtown Detroit past some of his favorite hang outs and often wondered what motivated the guy.

Zach Wheat

[brett]

Napoleon Lajoie. Aside from being underrated because of Cobb's presence he was a dignified, classy player and they named the team after him for Christ's sake!

[MacDice]

My favorite pre-1930 player is Earl Averill (he made his debut in 1929 so I think he qualifies for your question). The reason is easy, I am from Washington State and he was the first player from our state to be elected into the Hall of Fame. I now live around 20 minutes from the town that he lived in and have become friends with his son who has shared many stories and family photos of him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by brett

Napoleon Lajoie. Aside from being underrated because of Cobb's presence he was a dignified, classy player and they named the team after him for Christ's sake!

I would have guessed Jackson for you lol.
Mine is probably Wagner -- no less an authority than Sam Crawford said he was even better than Cobb.

[kmac32]

Elmer Miller because he was a distant relative and Team mate at Ruth's in the 1921 World Series

[Rob D.]

Jack Dunn

[Jason Carota]

Smoky Joe Wood.

"Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen mister, no man alive can throw any harder than Smoky Joe Wood." - Walter Johnson

That about sums it up.

Excellent pitcher during his Red Sox career, and a great batter with the Indians.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by brett

Napoleon Lajoie. Aside from being underrated because of Cobb's presence he was a dignified, classy player and they named the team after him for Christ's sake!

Brett,

Just today I was reading Sports Illustrated, and with Ken Griffey Jr.'s retirement, the magazine assembled its all-time team of Hall of Famers who retired without a World Series ring. Right away I looked at the second base spot, expecting to see Lajoie. Of course SI went with Ryne Sandberg. I laughed.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would have guessed Jackson for you lol.
Mine is probably Wagner -- no less an authority than Sam Crawford said he was even better than Cobb.

. In regards to Crawford's statement about Wagner, Crawford notoriously HATED Cobb so I would take his statement with a grain of salt. Cobb is probably the second greatest player ever after Babe. I'd put Wagner in the top 10 with the likes of Hornsby, Gehrig and others.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Brett,

Just today I was reading Sports Illustrated, and with Ken Griffey Jr.'s retirement, the magazine assembled its all-time team of Hall of Famers who retired without a World Series ring. Right away I looked at the second base spot, expecting to see Lajoie. Of course SI went with Ryne Sandberg. I laughed.

What a joke. Sandberg is SO overrated it's ridiculous... Good player, but saying he's better than Lajoie is literally like saying Patrick Ewing was better than Chamberlain. Not even in the same class.

[celoknob]

After he retired, Johnny Kling bought the Kansas City Blues in the early 1930s and quickly eliminated segregated seating when that was not a popular stance. He's my choice.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Jack Dunn

Sarcasm = terrorism

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by brett

What a joke. Sandberg is SO overrated it's ridiculous... Good player, but saying he's better than Lajoie is literally like saying Patrick Ewing was better than Chamberlain. Not even in the same class.

With all respect to Ryne Sandberg, he was no Patrick Ewing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill James ranks Wagner 2nd, Cobb 5th.

[rdixon1208]

Grover Alexander

Mostly because we share a common drinking problem

[gracecollector]

Walter "Rabbit" Maranville - he was right up there with the other jokesters and characters of the dead ball era. Plus he had plenty of talent too. Just seemed to love the game and had a great sense of humor. He always hamed it up for photographers too, so the images we are left of him bring me a smile. Read "Run, Rabbit, Run : the hilarious and mostly true tales of Rabbit Maranville" for his antics.

[dstraate]

Obviously never saw him, but I think Evers would have been a blast to see.

1. He stepped in and took over when the other guy was having a rough spot (same way I met my wife)

2. As a loyal Cubs fan, I'm fascinated by the fact that there was a time, albeit 100 years ago, that the Cubs broke the hearts and playoff dreams of other teams, read; Baseballs Sad Lexicon

3. Anybody who can take a feed from short, pivot, and get enough mustard on it to nab the guy at 1st is pretty rad. Lord knows I can't even gun down the fat slobs in our beer league off the pivot.

P.S. Ryno is getting a tough break here. He may be no Lajoie, but the Ewing comparisons are just harsh

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by celoknob

After he retired, Johnny Kling bought the Kansas City Blues in the early 1930s and quickly eliminated segregated seating when that was not a popular stance. He's my choice.

Good call there. Another extremely underrated player. Probably the best catcher in the dead ball era. His absence in 1909 likely cost the Cubs a 4th straight pennant.

[glchen]

Always been a big fan of Gehrig. Always a class act.

[sbfinley]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Ed Delahanty. The man was a beast in a time when the game went as followed: single, advance the runner, single, advance the runner.

Plus his demise is the stuff of "Unsolved Mysteries."

[green rhino123]

Cy Young, Ty Cobb, and/or Babe Ruth.
I can't decide.

[Kawika]

[fkw]

I like these 2

[brett]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bill James ranks Wagner 2nd, Cobb 5th.

In this case Bill James is flat out wrong. As great as Wagner was, none of the numbers compare. I'm not just talking about overall career numbers because Cobb played a few years longer, but their 162 game AVERAGE goes as follows: At Bats: Cobb 611 / Wagner 605, Runs: Cobb 120 / Wagner 101, Hits: Cobb 224 / Wagner 198, Doubles: Cobb 39 / Wagner 37, Triples: Cobb 16 / Wagner 15, Homers: Cobb 6 / Wagner 6, RBI: Cobb 103 / Wagner 100, Steals: Cobb 48 / Wagner 42, Walks: Cobb 67 / Wagner 56, On Base Percentage: Cobb .433 / Wagner .391, Career Slugging Percentage: Cobb .512 / Wagner .467, and finally Career Average: Cobb .366 (highest of all-time) / Wagner .328 (37th highest of all-time). In Wagner's best season he hit .381 while Cobb had 9 seasons better than that including 3 over .400 (his best was .420). Bottom line is it's not even close. There isn't ONE facet of hitting that Wagner was better than Cobb. Although one of the greatest ever, Wagner gets a little more love than he deserves because of the position he played and the mystique of a baseball card. One can make a strong argument that Cobb was the greatest ever (I'll still go with Babe), and I'd put Wagner a few spots behind them both after the likes of Hornsby, Gehrig and possibly Musial, but just ahead of Lajoie, Speaker, and some of the other legends of the game. Not that any of this matters because it's all opinion, but the Sporting News ranked Cobb 3rd best (after Ruth and Mays) and Wagner 13th (their top-ranked shortstop).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ruth pretty clearly ranks first. As for second, I think strong arguments could be made for Cobb, Wagner, Mays, Bonds, and anecdotally anyhow, Oscar Charleston.

[glynparson]

I'm a Pirates fan and a baseball card fan did I really have any other choice?

[martyogelvie]

the first pre war card I ever got was a Hal Chase card.. since then he has always held my attention... plus his cards are not astronomically priced.. which suites me fine!

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by gracecollector

Walter "Rabbit" Maranville - he was right up there with the other jokesters and characters of the dead ball era. Plus he had plenty of talent too. Just seemed to love the game and had a great sense of humor. He always hamed it up for photographers too, so the images we are left of him bring me a smile. Read "Run, Rabbit, Run : the hilarious and mostly true tales of Rabbit Maranville" for his antics.

I've been looking at this postcard for a few years now and have concluded that the guy with the arrow pointing at him is Rabbit. I know, can't be certain, but I think just based on the way he's standing and wearing his hat.





I know there's a thread on here somewhere in which it was found that this postcard pre-dated Ruth, but I can't find it, and can't recall if it was factual. Anyway, before that, when it was possible Ruth was hitting BP bombs in this postcard picture, exhibition style, with a packed stadium and all his teammates standing around in awe, I thought (and still do) that Ruth packed the stadium for BP, much like McGwire in '98.....

My family and I traveled to Atlanta in '98 for one of the Braves/Cardinals games, arriving early for BP and wow, McGwire was literally in another league by comparison. Ruth was the same way, yet further toward the extreme end of hitting by comparison. There was nobody close to him until later..........IMO, McGwire was the closest thing to "the next Babe Ruth," but he needed artificial enhancement to get there: Ruth just needed a dozen or so hot dogs....

I remember buying a bunch of unopened packs growing up and hoping for this and that, trading with my buddies, etc. Walking through our little league park one day I asked my older buddy, "Do you think there's such thing as a real Babe Ruth card, one that they did when he was playing? He didn't know; nobody seemed to know. I told him, (his nickname was "Hootie," nasty lefty pitcher, even back then), when I grow up, I'm going to get me one of those Babe Ruth cards if there is one........I thought about it all the time growing up:



My guy: Babe Ruth, the man with about a hundred nicknames

By the way, I have photos of each section of the postcard that I took with a macro lens if anyone is interested.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Sorry, forget about the postcard in my previous post, apparently I've been looking at those blurred images way too long..........Maybe they were playing the Braves or something that day......Ha!

[HRBAKER]

[jbsports33]

I would have to go with Buck Weaver, mostly because of the unknown and would have like to see numbers from him after 1919. He was a great all around player from what I read and he has some great history of just the average guy getting by in the majors.

Jimmy

[ethicsprof]

i,too, have been drawn to the notorious Buck Weaver lately.
i'm even having the Thompson Type 1 of weaver, sliding by Art Fletcher
in game 3 of the 1917 World Series, framed for a central place in my office.
i guess he's wooing me like the Joe Jackson has always done.

best,
barry

[gavvy]

Dode Paskert
One of the fastest players of the era and arguably the best outfielder (Fred Lieb said he made the best catch he ever saw). A nice guy and a hero (saved 5 kids in a 1921 fire). Also played on the Phils only WS team until 1950. Suffered with the nickname Dode (meaning not too bright). Had to name my dog after him.

[Al Parker]

Detroit's Genius in Spikes. Aside from his obvious talent on the diamond, his unique personality and scorching ambition has always intrigued me. Besides, I grew up in Detroit and spent many an hour gazing over the same emerald green field on which he starred.