Should Bud Selig Overturn Jim Joyce's Call?

[PolarBear]

When the commissioner voids Bonds/McGwire/Sosa etc. HR records, then I'll listen to his reasoning for reversing this call.

[barrysloate]

Leon- the poll is fine as worded.

I too was a little surprised that the umps didn't huddle after the play and have a conference. Is it possible the home plate umpire saw the play well enough to reverse it? Probably not, but that was the moment to discuss it.

And Adam is probably right- seems like we'll just have another perfect game in a week or so.

[Ladder7]

No.

But, Selig's appointment should be reversed.

[ChiefBenderForever]

It's a real mess, it was a perfect game except in the record books but will go down as a historic game much more talked about than had he gotten the correct call. What I don't understand is how a home run can be reviewed but a routine play like this cannot, doesn't make sense. Also have to really question where Joyce had his head was he not even aware that a perfect game was on the line ? I don't think this can be overturned and won't be but get rid of the home run reviews wtf.

[Robextend]

I voted "no". As sickened and disgusted as I was, it is part of the game and it should stand.

[sreader3]

No way the call should be reversed. Home plate umps blow at least 10% of ball and strike calls every game (I don't have the exact numbers, but when you watch any game on TV you can clearly see all the miscalls). These ball and strike miscalls, which are routine, make more of a difference than calls in the field on whether any game is perfect or a close miss. Galarraga was no more perfect than many other pitchers before him who were "robbed" by ball and strike miscalls that led to a walk or a basehit.

[Al C.risafulli]

Absolutely not.

A hundred years from now, they'll be talking about this game. This will be the second most famous perfect game in the history of baseball. Everybody knows it, including the young man who pitched it and the umpire who blew the call.

Absolutely everything about the way this has transpired has been wonderful. The class of Jim Joyce - a respected umpire - for immediately owning up to his mistake, not placing blame or making excuses, and personally apologizing. The grace and dignity of Armando Galarraga, for accepting the apology and conducting his postgame interviews with such poise, never with a negative word to say.

This is baseball, and this is life. People make mistakes that sometimes hurt, and admitting wrongdoing (and accepting apologies) is what we want people to do.

This is how we WANT our athletes to behave. They almost never behave the way we want them to. Why ruin all that by overturning a call?

-Al

[CardTarget]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

This is baseball, and this is life. People make mistakes that sometimes hurt, and admitting wrongdoing (and accepting apologies) is what we want people to do.

This is how we WANT our athletes to behave. They almost never behave the way we want them to. Why ruin all that by overturning a call?
l

Well put.

[ElCabron]

Does this mean the Cardinals won the 1985 World Series?

-Ryan

[barrysloate]

All good points...and I too was impressed by Galarraga's grace. But I still feel awful for what he lost. Haddix lost his perfect game but that was from a play on the field. There was an error, followed by a hit. This one is much worse. It will be talked about forever, but still...

[ctownboy]

As much as the Commissioner's Office might have wanted to do something, as far as steroids go, it was the Players Union who didn't want to take a stand against steroids and other PED's.

There had been a ruling by fay Vincent that said steroids and PED's were illegal since 1993 but the Players Union saw their guys makingtoo much money to change anything. It took Congress getting into the act to amke them change their tune.

As far as Pete Rose goes, he knew what he was doing was wrong and is paying the price for it. It hurts me to say this because I have been a Reds fan since 1975 but he is getting what he deserves.

Finally, ALL Major League sports tell kids to "do the right thing". Well, Bud Selig has a chance to "do the right thing" but will he?

If he would have allowed greater use of instant replay he would NOT be in this spot now. But since he didn't, he NOW has to grow a pair and "do the right thing".

David

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

No.

But, Selig's appointment should be reversed.

I agree with Steve on both counts.
No way should it be reversed. It opens up a whole can of worms. Do we now reverse Denkinger's call in the WS? How about the horrible call on Maurer's foul ball that might have changed the entire playoffs between the Yankees and Twins?
The one thing that does bother me is that the ump, even though apologetic and contrite and admitting his mistake, violated an unwritten baseball rule which gives the pitcher the edge on a close call in a situation like this. I remember Larsen's 2 strike pitch in the WS which was in Dale Mitchell's eyes and was called a strike to preserve the perfect game. This wasn't even a close call. The ump blew a call the previous inning which changed a 1-0 game in to a 3-0 game and he isn't even talking about that one.
We don't need to open Pandora's Box. I feel sorry for the pitcher but don't take that one horrible step.

[barrysloate]

Phil- how baseball might implement a review would of course entail some thought. Perhaps it should be only allowed from the ninth inning on. Or maybe a manager is given say one challenge per game, and hope he hasn't used it by the time there are two outs in the ninth inning of a perfect game.

Frankly, I think the umps being allowed to review a home run call is arbitrary. Why is a disputed home run in the first inning any more important than a call at first base to end a perfect game? So it's already compromised. What if you have a disputed double or triple-why can't that be reviewed?

[bigtrain]

A small point but the Brett pine tar home run decision was overruled by Lee McPhail, American League President, not by the Commissioner. And although it was called a "rule interpretation" that is nonsense. Brett used too much pine tar. They measured it. It violated the rule. At that point, it was an illegal bat. Brett was justifiably called out. McPhail was wrong to overturn it. Brett reacted to being caught breaking the rules by behaving like a maniac. He should have been suspended in addition to being called out. A great contrast to the classy behavior of Galarraga who, unlike Brett, was the victim of a bad call. Sorry but I would not rely on the Brett decision to justify the Commissioner getting involved in this one. I hope umpires will always be part of the game. Would it be the same game we love if there was an electronic strike zone?

[barrysloate]

So Cleveland and Detroit have an afternoon game today, and Jim Joyce refused to take the day off and is umpiring behind home plate. But get this: Armando Galarraga brought out the line up card and presented it to Joyce, who at that moment proceeded to break out in tears.

There is an amazing story going on here that really is unique. And I also heard that the fans cheered Joyce when they easily could have called for his head.

[Zach Wheat]

I agree with Barry...there does seem to be another story going on here. Both Galarraga and Joyce were classy in how they handled it both as it was happening and afterwards during the fallout. Joyce admitting he was wrong and apologizing and then having Galarraga change his attitude once Joyce had apologized in person. Both handled it in a classy manner.

Zach

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Phil- how baseball might implement a review would of course entail some thought. Perhaps it should be only allowed from the ninth inning on. Or maybe a manager is given say one challenge per game, and hope he hasn't used it by the time there are two outs in the ninth inning of a perfect game.

Frankly, I think the umps being allowed to review a home run call is arbitrary. Why is a disputed home run in the first inning any more important than a call at first base to end a perfect game? So it's already compromised. What if you have a disputed double or triple-why can't that be reviewed?

Barry, I don't like the HR review either. Giving managers one challenge per game could work, but what are you allowed to challenge? See, there goes "the list" again of what a manager could challenge. Can he challenge balls or strikes? Balks? The phanton swipe on the double-play? Runner out of the baseline? Out of the batter's box.......it just goes on and on.

[barrysloate]

Well it doesn't go on and on if the rules are carefully spelled out. I guess I have a natural tendency to want to see things called correctly. I was heartbroken by last night's ending and just felt it was unfair, even if we all agree that bad calls are a part of the game.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Well it doesn't go on and on if the rules are carefully spelled out. I guess I have a natural tendency to want to see things called correctly. I was heartbroken by last night's ending and just felt it was unfair, even if we all agree that bad calls are a part of the game.

That's what I am asking you.....do you think that you could come up with a black & white, defined list of instances that can be challenged? I don't think you can without including hundreds of instances, which is too much.

Barry, what would be your basic outline for acceptable plays that can be challenged?