Absolutely deplorable actions by a fellow forum member!

[carrigansghost]

I do not have deep pockets but will also overpay for cards that I really want.

Rawn

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by carrigansghost

I do not have deep pockets but will also overpay for cards that I really want.

Rawn

Likewise. However that is usually an auction style format. Sometimes we bid more than what we think the card may be worth to ensure that we win it when we know we are (or may be) in competition with others. A fixed price sale is totally different. The seller quotes his asking price and the buyer can either choose to purchase it or not. Until this day (and I've been collecting for 26 years) I have never heard of a buyer offer a seller 30% more (or any more) than his asking price on a card. It just doesn't make sense to me. In all my years of collecting I have never been at a show or in a shop and have a dealer quote me a price on a card and then turn around and offer him more than what he's asking. Am I missing something or is that just common practice?

[carrigansghost]

Don't get me wrong, I'm with the buyer here and would hold the seller to the agreed price.

Rawn

[bcornell]

2 threads in 2 weeks about 'BST problems' from the same guy. I've used it 100+ times in 6 years and have yet to have an issue with anyone. Either I'm lucky, or something else is the root cause.

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

[carrigansghost]

No problems with "BST" here either and no problems with ebay. Guess I'm one of the lucky few.

Rawn

[forazzurri2axz]

this originally posted by vintagetopps collector
Likewise. However that is usually an auction style format. Sometimes we bid more than what we think the card may be worth to ensure that we win it when we know we are (or may be) in competition with others. A fixed price sale is totally different. The seller quotes his asking price and the buyer can either choose to purchase it or not. Until this day (and I've been collecting for 26 years) I have never heard of a buyer offer a seller 30% more (or any more) than his asking price on a card. It just doesn't make sense to me. In all my years of collecting I have never been at a show or in a shop and have a dealer quote me a price on a card and then turn around and offer him more than what he's asking. Am I missing something or is that just common practice?

.... IFthe seller has a price and it SEEMS like he may be shopping around for a better price, and IF I really want the card, then at times I have offered more than the asking price to "finalize" the transaction and have the seller commit to me at that point...it seems to me that while his price may have originally been $1000.00, it was almost like a "make a best offer " type situation...my 2 cents

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by bcornell

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

The last 2-3 weeks haven't been fun.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by bcornell

2 threads in 2 weeks about 'BST problems' from the same guy. I've used it 100+ times in 6 years and have yet to have an issue with anyone. Either I'm lucky, or something else is the root cause.

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

Yeah, its all my fault on this one. Shame on me for not wanting to be used as leverage for another guy's bid in an auction without being told thats what it was. By the way, perhaps you missed my follow-up on the other BST topic....it was a PUBLIC APOLOGY. Either you missed it, or convienently failed to mention it in your above post.

[carrigansghost]

Chicago, I think you are taking it wrong. It;s a reference to the drama on here and the morals of some that do business on the forum.

Rawn

[jb217676]

My understanding of this situation is Jamie is auctioning a card to the highest bidder before he actually owns the card. His thinking is, the higher the price he gets for the Uzit, the more money he has towards the other card he wants. If I were Chicago206, I would outbid Jamie on the pair and sell him the one he wants. Or another member with 'deep pockets' could win the pair and put an end to this story. That would be funny!

[scottglevy]

Just looked at the heritage auction being mentioned. Certainly seems like there are quite a few Uzit cards up for bids -- plenty to go around.

As for the drama.... While I have my thoughts, I'd rather just stay out of it and hope for a reasonable resolution for both involved.

Best,
Scott

[JP]

Jamie can feign innocence all he wants, but as you can read in the email he sent me (first or second page of this thread I believe) he purposefully omitted relevant information...like the fact it wasn't "for sale" but actually an auction. And he told me the high offer was $1300, indicating there was no deal in place, and that he'd roll over for any amount higher than that. All the way around he has been dishonest, an there is no suitable explanation that can explain that away.

[Blunder19]

Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

Chicago,

First of all i dont appreciate how you have tried to blow this up into a huge deal. You have already needed to appoligize to the board once before for posting first and thinking second.

Here was my intentions: to win the auction and sell the card to Chicago for the agreed upon $1300, keeping the seymour for myself. Collecting the $1300 after I had won the auction. Thats it. I told Chicago that I DIDNT OWN THE CARD on April 2nd, here is the email sent to him then:
"Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1."

here is the email I sent today about Phil wanting me to put "sold" on bst :
" ..(I wont) put its sold until I have the card in hand. Which will be in a couple weeks. As I said I'm not looking for anyone else. So as long as my deal goes through. So will ours."

and my last email to him today:
"I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?"



Where is the scam there. Maybe I am wrong for assuming that I am going to win the auction. But I have a very good idea of what this SHOULD end at.. and what I was going to bid.... But the word scam means that I am looking to rip someone off.. which i have never done ever!.. i told you I didnt own the card April 2nd... and you RAISED your offer price AFTER I said that....how dare you start this thread Chicago.. go make more youtube videos of your backs if you want to waste time...

What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal... Chicago found out from ME that this was not my card and I needed to buy it from "another source".. i did not want to mention where.. because maybe he goes and bids on the lot and now I am weakening my chance to win the Seymour.

And I believe 2 one offs I wanted to address... I had no agreement with anyone else at 1000... just interest.. chicago was the only one I had an agreement with.. and as soon as we had an agreement I removed the ad from the bst saying I am no longer looking for a buyer.. so clearly planning on honoring my agreement with Chicago...
2nd someone said that I dont value my rep on this board..?.. I am on this board every day.. posting all the time... ofcourse I care about this board..

Jamie

[prestigecollectibles]

It seems to me there were only 2 choices.

1) Try to win the auction on your own and sell the card you didn't want later.
2) Out the auction by looking for a partner up front.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Jamie,

Your reply did not respond to the fact that you offered the card at $1400.

Both of you have a bit to be desired in how this whole thing is being handled.

Chicago, you are going to have to learn on this board if you are going to go after somebody there are going to be defenders both ways and your past rep will get brought up.

Who says you can't sell what you dont own ask Bernie madoff.

Lee

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

Chicago,

First of all i dont appreciate how you have tried to blow this up into a huge deal. You have already needed to appoligize to the board once before for posting first and thinking second.

Here was my intentions: to win the auction and sell the card to Chicago for the agreed upon $1300, keeping the seymour for myself. Collecting the $1300 after I had won the auction. Thats it. I told Chicago that I DIDNT OWN THE CARD on April 2nd, here is the email sent to him then:
"Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1."

here is the email I sent today about Phil wanting me to put "sold" on bst :
" ..(I wont) put its sold until I have the card in hand. Which will be in a couple weeks. As I said I'm not looking for anyone else. So as long as my deal goes through. So will ours."

and my last email to him today:
"I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?"



Where is the scam there. Maybe I am wrong for assuming that I am going to win the auction. But I have a very good idea of what this SHOULD end at.. and what I was going to bid.... But the word scam means that I am looking to rip someone off.. which i have never done ever!.. i told you I didnt own the card April 2nd... and you RAISED your offer price AFTER I said that....how dare you start this thread Chicago.. go make more youtube videos of your backs if you want to waste time...

What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal... Chicago found out from ME that this was not my card and I needed to buy it from "another source".. i did not want to mention where.. because maybe he goes and bids on the lot and now I am weakening my chance to win the Seymour.

And I believe 2 one offs I wanted to address... I had no agreement with anyone else at 1000... just interest.. chicago was the only one I had an agreement with.. and as soon as we had an agreement I removed the ad from the bst saying I am no longer looking for a buyer.. so clearly planning on honoring my agreement with Chicago...
2nd someone said that I dont value my rep on this board..?.. I am on this board every day.. posting all the time... ofcourse I care about this board..

Jamie

Ok....enough of Jamie's lies. Not once did he ever say anything even similar to "as long as my deal goes through, so will ours". I strongly feel the need to list every word of every email regarding this matter. The newest is on top, the oldest at the bottom, so read from bottom, up.




Re: Uzit...second request‏
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Sent: Sat 4/03/10 6:38 PM
To: phil wyantt (golddigger10932@hotmail.com)

There is no answer because that situation wouldn't have come up because I told u today I need to buy the card first.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:35:14 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Im really not either. It was just an honest question. I wanted to know what excuse you were gonna give me if you didnt win that auction lot. Thats not alot to ask, is it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:22:37 +0000

Phil I'm not big into back and forth crap so good luck with your collecting.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:18:50 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request



Have you ever "planned on winning an auction", but it didnt happen? Yeah, me too! You guaranteed I would get the card if I committed to pay the $1300. When the auction ended in 19 days, and if you were not the winner, what did you plan on telling me Jamie??? Im VERY curious to know!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:09:42 +0000

Sorry u feel mislead u. All I was trying to do is find a buyer for a card that I am going to buy but don't want. I am planning on winning this card. And I didn't let u wait 2 weeks because I told u today I needed to buy it first. I will just look for someone else. Sry to have wasted ur time. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:55:41 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request



Go back and read our emails.....Now answer the following question:

Under what circumstances was I willing to wait 2 weeks? AS LONG AS YOU GUARANTEED I OWNED THE CARD!

Correct or no? I did not agree to wait 2 weeks to SEE IF I GET THE CARD. Correct or no?

Furthermore, since the auction doesnt end for 19 days, and it will take at least another 5-7 days before you actually get the card, we are talking closer to a month than 2 weeks, arent we?

You tried to use me as leverage to buy an auction lot without telling me so. If I did go along with it, not knowing, and you were NOT the winner of that auction, then what? You come here to tell me "sorry, tough luck"? Tell me that after I have commited my money to you??? And you see nothing wrong there? Wow!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:46:23 +0000

Phil I don't follow. If I get the card I was looking to sell it to someone interested. I wasn't taking your money until I have the card in hand. If your not interested in waiting 2 weeks then why did you tell me you were? Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:42:58 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Unreal Jamie. VERY deceptive thing you did. Im only willing to wait 2 weeks because you GUARANTEED it would be mine. How do you guarantee a card thats in a live auction? Im not going to commit my money, and pass on other deals so that I MIGHT get the card IF you place the winning bid. You should have been more upfront with me....you should not have guaranteed the card to me if I commited to you. And thats what you did. Reread our emails...I was very clear that I dont mind waiting as long as it was a sure thing. Next time look for an "auction buddy" so that he at least understands there is a chance he wont get the card. Thanks anyway.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:18:04 +0000

I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:08:06 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


The sharks are in a feeding frenzy in your BST ad. Im doing everything in my power to restrain myself from posting that I bought it. Perhaps it would be best for you to state the card has sold?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:55:00 +0000

Ok good. I'll keep you posted.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:26:19 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Its a deal Jamie! Im in no hurry as long as I know its mine..:-). Consider the deal done.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 20:10:17 +0000

Also you have my word that even if someone else were to offer 1400 for example.. I would turn it down.

So no worries on that front. As long as you are ok with waiting 2 weeks.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:04:57 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


As long as I have your word that its mine....I have zero problems waiting the couple of weeks. Just let me know when it arrives, and i'll get a bank check out to you that day. Not sure if you saw my thread I posted yesterday, but I have just completed the 15 brands backs collection. Of the 15 cards, all are graded but 1....its a super beater Uzit that I was able to buy for $300 as a filler. Today feels great as now I have a decent example of an Uzit. I thank you for the opportunity!


Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 19:50:20 +0000

Phil
I would prefer certified bank check..so I don't have paypal fees.. Paypal is fine if you want to do is as a gift... Or add 3%... But hold off on paying until I get it in the mail. It may be as long as 2 weeks. But I will not go around looking for anyone else. If you have a problem waiting 2 weeks.. Let me know so I can look for someone else.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 14:45:08 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


I'll take it. How do you want payment?

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 13:14:02 -0400
From: blunder19@aol.com


Phil,

Heres the scans.. let me know if you are in at 1300.... and I will not seek out anyone else.

jamie





-----Original Message-----
From: phil wyantt
To: blunder19@aol.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 3, 2010 12:29 pm
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Hey Jamie. Just writing to let you know that my offer of $1300 is solid until Monday morning. Hopefully you will know by then. Although I badly want the card for my backs collection, I have been presented with another fantastic opportunity for a card I want as well (but your Uzit is my priority). Hate to wait longer than Monday just to hear someone else offered higher on your Uzit, and then lose this other opportunity as well, im sure you understand my dilemma. The sooner, the better on letting me know if I own the Uzit at $1300. Thanks.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:58:16 +0000

Let me send u the scans 1st. I also have other people that I promised to send the pic to. So to be fair to them I have to hear what they want to pay. I will not make any decisions without letting you know what's going on. U seem very interested, and I know the feeling.
Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 20:39:40 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Consider it sold to me at $1300 as long as it has decent eye appeal for a 1. I dont care about creases at all, I just hate paper loss. If the card looks sharp for a 1, I will take it at $1300. Let me know if this is ok with you.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:20:51 +0000

Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:40:06 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Thanks for the reply Jaime. If the card is a higher end 1, I wouldnt mind spending $1,300 on it. Just keep that in mind before selling it. Talk with you tomorrow.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 00:35:53 +0000

Phil I am busy with quarter end work... I am not free until tomorrow. I will catch up on baseball stuff tomorrow... I have many people interested in getting the card. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:17:56 -0500
To:
Subject: Uzit...second request


Hi Jamie. This is my 2nd request to see the Uzit. Let me know whats going on when you get the chance as I'd like to own the card. Thanks.

Phil

[vintagesportscollector]

[QUOTE=Blunder]Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

"...was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorence on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing is frowned upon... you know, cause I've worked sold in a lot of offices b/s/t, and I tell you, people do that all the time..."

sorry, just had to go into a Seinfeld tangent

[Fred]

Choo- choo.... this is the Cannon Ball Express heading for "Train-Wreck Taverns"...

My 2 cents...

A quick recap -

• A T206 UZIT card is offered on BST for $1K.
  
• Potential buyer (person who started thread) agrees to $1.3K and delivery in a short period of time.
  
• Potential buyer finds out that seller doesn't own the card, rather the card is up for auction via Heritage Auctions. The delivery time of the card is prior to the end of the auction - How can that be. This rubs the buyer the wrong way and the potential buyer is pissed off enough to out the potential seller in this thread.
  
• New twist - someone else shows interest in the card and the potential seller tells that person that the card is theirs for $1.4K - now, that is really pushing the enveloped on the part of the potential seller.
  
• We are all waiting for the potential seller to respond to this thread.... I CAN'T WAIT....
  

Some people might think the actions of the seller are fine, as long as he follows through with the sale. Personally, I think it's a real bad way to do business, especially with another board member. What really makes this bad is the accusation that the potential seller would have taken more money for the card from someone else. If this is in fact true then I think that the potenial seller has a lot of explaining to do.

Doesn't common sense dictate that you can't sell what you don't own and you should honor your price on a card, even if you are offered more for it. GREED!!!!

The BST is caveat emptor. Actions like these will almost force the moderators to create rules for something that is supposed to be a friendly arena for trade.

Here's the link to the UZIT cards in question (being auctioned by Heritage):

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...7&Lot_No=81043

I hope nobody gets upset that I posted the link but it's already common knowledge which card is in question and which auction house is selling it.

Potential Buyer = happy to make deal
Potenial Buyer = puzzled about potential sellers actions
Potential Buyer = pissed off after finding out what potential seller is up to

[ullmandds]

Definitely not an ethical way to do business in my opinion...but wow...look at all those uzits! I think Jamie is consulting with Tiger Wood's PR person prior to making his statement.

[oldjudge]

Maybe I missed the piece of information in the carnage, but why would a buyer be paying $1300 for a card that was offered at $1000? If the seller was crawfishing on the deal to start with, that was probably a good sign to walk away (run away) from dealing with him.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Yeah, its all my fault on this one. Shame on me for not wanting to be used as leverage for another guy's bid in an auction without being told thats what it was. By the way, perhaps you missed my follow-up on the other BST topic....it was a PUBLIC APOLOGY. Either you missed it, or convienently failed to mention it in your above post.

Yeah, I missed it, but thanks for the all caps emphasis. I'll make sure I pay special attention to your weekly BST blowup in the new few days.