SGC vs PSA vs Beckett- BVG

[Leon]

OK....since the other poll seems to be a little bit narrow in scope I decided to do this one. There are a few different options so here we go.....

[barrysloate]

For the record, I went with I wish they would just authenticate the item and not grade it. And I feel very strongly about it.

[David W]

I only prefer PSA because that is the company I started having grade my cards, and is most readily recongizable for Post WW2.

If I'd been on Net 54 earlier, I'd probably use SGC.

I don't really think there is much difference between the 2 in terms of quality and grading standards.

[teetwoohsix]

I think you have a better chance of getting a higher grade on a card through PSA.What I mean by that is-I have cards graded by both,and when I am comparing cards it seems like where PSA would grade a cards a VG3 that has a small crease in it,SGC may only give that card a good 2(30).But I prefer SGC,I beleive they use more scrutiny.Just my opinion.......

[rman444]

My own category, since it is not on the list:

I like SGC for prewar and postwar.
I like Beckett for modern and all of the prewar and postwar that SGC will not holder (even though they should)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

My own category, since it is not on the list:

I like SGC for prewar and postwar.
I like Beckett for modern and all of the prewar and postwar that SGC will not holder (even though they should)

Those are precisely my thoughts.....but I didn't think to add it as an option.

[Bicem]

I like PSA for really mainstream stuff (t206, Cracker Jacks, Goudeys), SGC for all other.

[GehrigFan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

For the record, I went with I wish they would just authenticate the item and not grade it. And I feel very strongly about it.

Don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but I wanted to clarify quickly that we (Beckett) do offer this. We do it slightly differently than SGC/PSA in that we offer both "Authentic-Altered" (real card, tampered in some way) AND "Authentic" (for hand-cut strip cards AND any cards that could be graded, but the customer chooses to simply have them authenticated without a grade).

Thanks!
Mark Anderson

[barrysloate]

Mark- it's good that you offer this service- and I plan to shortly open an account and send you some cards for just that reason- but my point is the numerical grading system is unnecessary. I can expound more on it if anyone cares but for now I'll leave it at that.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

but my point is the numerical grading system is unnecessary. I can expound more on it if anyone cares but for now I'll leave it at that.

agreed since it's all so subjective but I would like to hear more about your opinion on the subject.

I like how Beckett offers the option but it really doesn't matter since the focus on numerical grades dominates the hobby, and until that mindset changes the Beckett graded Auth cards will just eventually wind up in numerical holders anyway.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Mark- it's good that you offer this service- and I plan to shortly open an account and send you some cards for just that reason- but my point is the numerical grading system is unnecessary. I can expound more on it if anyone cares but for now I'll leave it at that.

And for my 2 cents, I also don't need the numerical grade, but I would like a description of the flaws; with so many cards changing hands without ever seeing them in person, things can hide in scans. if I can type in a cert # online and the grading company tells me that there is a surface wrinkle on the front-right edge, I can come up with my own assessment of how that effects it's value.

[barrysloate]

Okay Jeff, since you asked:

Grading is far too subjective for a system that is based on very precise numerical grades. When you consider that grading standards vary from company to company, from grader to grader within each company, and even on multiple submissions within the same company, it's pointless to assume that cards can be graded with such accuracy. With each submission grades can go up or down, authentic cards can get numerical grades, and any number of variables can come into play. And yet collectors pay gigantic premiums based entirely on these less than reliable numbers.

I think any collector can learn to grade a card with some practice, and it's a great skill to have. The one thing collectors can not do on their own is spot alterations. Card doctors are extremely skilled and their work is very difficult to detect. That is a service desperately needed to protect collectors from all kinds of fraud.

But I have to say I am less than impressed by how grading has evolved. It's an inexact science pretending to offer a level of precision that doesn't really exist. If I apply myself I can grade just as well as the pros, and so could most of the people on this board. I say stick to examining cards for alterations only and you will provide the hobby with a much needed service.

[srs1a]

I agree with Richard, et al about Beckett and modern cards -- I was looking for that option, but a 3 way survey would have been way too much!

I don't agree with the 'no numbers needed' sentiment. I also don't think that the TPGers are giving 'exact grades'. Sure, they give a number...but for the cards I collect (T206s in VG - VG/EX), I view a 40/3 and a 50/4 as the same grade and let my eye make the decision from there. There are 3's that I absolutely love...there are 4's that I wouldn't touch. Such is life in the armpit of collecting

[Bicem]

Agreed Barry, but I don't have a problem with the grading companies assigning grades to cards, the problem is collectors thinking those grades are the word of God instead of realizing it's simply a subjective opinion after briefly examining a card that can easily change from company to company or grader to grader or day to day. The current huge price disparity between grades that exists in the hobby today is insane and I think this mindset of collectors is to blame. They are putting so much stock into a constantly changing opinion.

[barrysloate]

Jeff- well said.

[mintacular]

I believe this poll needs to add more choices as there simply are not enough to pick from BVG=modern SGC=post-war GEM Mint=Prewar (j/k)

[Bicem]

Thanks Barry, what's kinda sad is that I don't think this mindset will ever really change. Unless... alterations become so rampant in the hobby that people are just forced to be very leery of all technical grades.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Thanks Barry, what's kinda sad is that I don't think this mindset will ever really change. Unless... alterations become so rampant in the hobby that people are just forced to be very leery of all technical grades.

It's anecdotal, but I've noticed an increasing number of sales where cards that have eye appeal much nicer then the technical grade sell quite a bit higher then the grade (and a few cases where the inverse was true as well).

[Steve D]

I like PSA best for post-war, and pre-war tobacco cards.

I like SGC best for caramels. This is mainly due to the caramels being a bit bigger than tobacco cards (T205/6/7), and PSA too-often putting them in oversized holders with the "card condoms".


Steve

[Fred]

Unfortunately, this hobby has been completely impacted by the grading frenzy. The lunacy of a numerical grade making one piece of cardboard in the same condition (but with a different numerical grade) worth thousands of more dollars is really quite STUPID.

The end loser in this is the pure hobbyist that just wants to collect and complete sets. The price of the cards are driven to insane and sometimes unattainable (to many) valuations. It was a much more simple hobby before the grading frenzy took over. Some people will argue that the grading brought more interest to the hobby but, I for one, don't care for the end result.

I'd rather see the companies provide authentication services and if they "subjectively" feel the card is altered then they could include their findings on the label. Let the eye appeal of the card be the main selling point, not some subjectively derived number.

[Mark]

Like many others, I prefer the ungraded card. When I decide that a given card is staying, I crack it open and place it into the collection. But I submit lots of prewar cards to grading services so that I can sell them. For this purpose, I prefer PSA holders since I think they provide a fairer grade. Of course, when PSA lets me down and undergrades a card, I ususally send it off to SGC for another opinion.

[showtime]

Originally Posted by GehrigFan

Don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but I wanted to clarify quickly that we (Beckett) do offer this. We do it slightly differently than SGC/PSA in that we offer both "Authentic-Altered" (real card, tampered in some way) AND "Authentic" (for hand-cut strip cards AND any cards that could be graded, but the customer chooses to simply have them authenticated without a grade).

Thanks!
Mark Anderson

Unfortunately the BGS flip for authentic cards is a hideous blue color which kills the eye appeal of most any card encassed, my opinion.