is ebay killing high grade 50's-60's market?

[HRBAKER]

Do many people view SMR as a price guide? Isn't it more like an advertising vehicle with some columns of numbers in it? I disagree about ebay killing collecting, quite the opposite. I can find almost anything I am looking for within reason in many grades. I used to have to wait for SCD or many mail order catalogs monthly or make several phone calls. The main problem is that most people (me included) think their cards are or should be worth more than they are.

[smtjoy]

Nice thread.

I dont think you can compare ebay prices to smr prices. SMR at best is a guess on the current value vs ebay is an actual price paid for a card (for the majority of ebay sales). To me ebay helps establish a market value.

If not for ebay I would not be collecting, if you are in a remote location that does not have access to shows and dealers you really are down to auction houses and ebay and they both make collecting possible. Now ebay is a large factor in killing off the card shops and shows but to me it is only making cards available to anyone/anywhere.

On the "if I had 100k to invest in cards" I would be doing pretty much what Exhibitman suggested. I would not be buying any mainstream topps/bowman issues and for sure not in high grade 7-10 cards. If I wanted to collect the HOFer you mention I would look hard for Topps test issues like 1968 3D Clemente, 67 68 candy lids, or scarce regional issues like Franks Esslinger Aaron and 1958 Kahns Clemente.

The reason I feel that vintage is a smart buy is there is just not much of it out there. Scarcity is whats going to bring a future rise in price, when you have more people collecting an issue than the number of cards of it out there. An example I collect Exhibits and for a set like 1933 which had 16 cards, PSA and SGC have graded a combined 15 cards (of those 4 are the Ruth). So not even a full set has been graded so you can forget all that low pop stuff because with a set like this you are lucky just to find one in any condition and you can forget about getting a deal on them.

[mintacular]

The cat is out of the bag on all those rare issues you mentioned. So the $ you pay for them will reflect that. I still say for the $ you put in, high grade RCs w/eye appeal for post-war stars is the way to go over random/obscure and overpriced regional issues that look a high-schooler took the picture...

[Exhibitman]

You might have missed a bit of my point about the sales viability of prewar versus postwar. I don't want to/cannot (because there are no shows left ibn SoCal) set up and sit around a mall show all weekend trying to sell cards. If I need to liquidate I need to be able to move, not work a fulltime retail job. I know from past experience that I can literally pick up the phone and arrange large sales at very strong prices for rare prewar cards. I could not do the same for my postwar higher grade stuff unless I was willing to take a wholesale price from a dealer. If the goal is to maximize returns, taking a dealer wholesale offer when you sell or being forced to incur the costs of sitting shows is not the way to do it.

Another issue as far as rthe hypothesis about selling at shows, the point contradicts the premise of much of the thread--if Ebay is an abbatoir for sellers of these cards, why would show attendees pony up substantially more for the same cards that they can get on Ebay? I saw lots and lots of high grade postwar sitting in showcases at empty tables at the National. Didn't look like a great investment to me for the sellers.

[smtjoy]

The great thing about collecting vs investing is there is no bad moves in collecting, not true with investing.

I have two 1955 Topps Clemente Rookies (PSA 6 and 7) I am break even on the 7 after a year and a half, I got the 6 a couple years ago and if I compare what I paid vs the VCP average today I am in the hole over 20%, crappy investment but an awesome card of my favorite player and happy just to own a card I always wanted.

[Rich Klein]

Is that one of the major issues with SMR is that in large parts they are "beholden" to people who advertise with them; instead of tracking actual sales.

if they ever really used VCP (or Card Pricer) properly and did a little more work on pricing; you would probably find these things

1) Cards only priced in conditions they exist. This might have been fixed in recent years; however; this used to be a real problem with the SMR.

2) Prices lowered on those post-war sets.

3) Meanwhile; priced raised on legit difficult pre-war (and other tough modern sets) sets.

4) And on a customer service complaint; I'm one of those rare people who PAY for a subscription to SMR and I've done that a couple of times and I have NEVER gotten a renewal notice. I don't know about you; but throwing away the chance for money by sending a simple renewal notices if just not good common sense.

4A) Because of issue #4 (and I stress this is personal); AND the membership fee to PSA -- why would I ever want to send cards into PSA. I can't have faith in their customer service because they don't know how to run a magazine AND why should I pay $99 for the priveledge of sending cards into PSA. Personally; I would much prefer a price fixe of sub costing X and cards being sent in costing Y (with whatever special deals do come up). I don't want to be a member of a "club"; I just want cards graded!

Regards
Rich

[GasHouseGang]

Rich,
I agree with you that they have prices on some cards that according to their own population report, don't even exist. How can they assign a price? Guess, magic 8 ball?

[sportscardtheory]

Also take into consideration that more and more of the cards from that era are being slabbed, thus creating higher supply and less demand.