THE MARKEL REPORT: Are Graded Baseball Cards Being “Juiced” (Aesthetically Enhanced)?

[Sean_C]

Hi Scott.

The reasons threads would have been removed before the new boards are the same as they are now, nothing has really changed in terms of how threads are handled.

Let's try to keep this focused on the topic of altered cards, and not hijack the thread with how other sites may police their boards. If you have any additional questions, feel free to PM me, and I'll answer what I can.

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

threads were zapped before the new board started ... WAY BEFORE....

and it wasnt Burge as you said....

it sounds like "BGSFAD"....a guy, when mentioned, most of the time those threads were wacked over there...he has since changed his ID since he developed such a negative connotation with his "BGSFAD" ID

[stone193]

Thanx Dan - I see what ya mean.

Altho this is very compelling - what do you plan to do about it?

Is this a problem with guys like Susor or PSA or both?

Proving this in a court may be different - I would believe - than convincing the board membership.

Does anyone think PSA is an intentional part of this problem?

That would just seem dumb - for a few more grading fees they're gonna risk their entire collective operation?

mike

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think PSA is in cahoots with this seller if he did anything or anyone else. To me it suggests that the 10 second review you get for your 5 bucks is insufficient to detect high quality microtrimming. EDIT TO ADD If asked I might feel differently about a bygone era at PSA when different graders were there.

[barrysloate]

Peter- all the card doctors know that too. I'm sure they all brag about the fact that their work is so good they can get it past the graders.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think PSA is in cahoots with this seller if he did anything or anyone else. To me it suggests that the 10 second review you get for your 5 bucks is insufficient to detect high quality microtrimming. EDIT TO ADD If asked I might feel differently about a bygone era at PSA when different graders were there.

Anyone who consistently gets cards rejected for evidence of trimming should be placed on a watchlist by the grading companies....I would bet a donut that PSA knows who the trimmers are, and if in fact they do and continue to allow them to send in submission then by my definition they are "In cahoots" with the trimmers.

[Dakota]

Great work Dan. You put a tremendous amount of work and money into this and I appreciate you trying help clean up the hobby.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Anyone who consistently gets cards rejected for evidence of trimming should be placed on a watchlist by the grading companies....I would bet a donut that PSA knows who the trimmers are, and if in fact they do and continue to allow them to send in submission then by my definition they are "In cahoots" with the trimmers.

Dan, you're right of course -- but how would that help PSA make money? In a bizarre way, the Set Registry -- which makes a load of money for PSA -- actually encourages trimming. PSA wants more collectors to want higher graded cards so the trimming will continue, unabated.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dan, you're right of course -- but how would that help PSA make money? In a bizarre way, the Set Registry -- which makes a load of money for PSA -- actually encourages trimming. PSA wants more collectors to want higher graded cards so the trimming will continue, unabated.

It's interesting to me that this guys name is not allowed to be uttered on the PSA boards yet he is still allowed to submit cards to them. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmm....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

It's interesting to me that this guys name is not allowed to be uttered on the PSA boards yet he is still allowed to submit cards to them. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmm....

Exactly. More PSA money = Susor continuing to submit. Less PSA money = discussions regarding Susor and his ability to get trimmed cards past PSA graders.

By the way, did we ever learn if Susor worked at PSA? And if so, under what circumstances did he leave?

[HRBAKER]

I've figured it out. The low pop commons are so high because there is so much more labor cost involved. This is disturbing but haven't we really figured as much for a long time now?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To me it suggests that the 10 second review you get for your 5 bucks is insufficient to detect high quality microtrimming.

Case closed....that is for those who really care to know what lies WITHIN the slab.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Corey, good point. There probably are registry guys who wouldn't care if you proved to them their cards were trimmed, so long as the label reads 8 or 9. Incredible that things have come to this juncture, where the flip means so much more than the card itself.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Corey, good point. There probably are registry guys who wouldn't care if you proved to them their cards were trimmed, so long as the label reads 8 or 9. Incredible that things have come to this juncture, where the flip means so much more than the card itself.

Peter,

I don't think much has really changed. In in the infancy of grading, when auctions appeared in SCD, dealers used to joke about not really needing to show the entire card but just the label so they could fit more cards on a page and save ad space. Think there are simply more collectors who have bought into that and more collectors with more money. Not sure how many of them really care if their cards are altered, as long as their grading company of choice remains in business.

[base_ball]

Shocked, shocked!

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by botn

I don't think much has really changed. In in the infancy of grading, when auctions appeared in SCD, dealers used to joke about not really needing to show the entire card but just the label so they could fit more cards on a page and save ad space. Think there are simply more collectors who have bought into that and more collectors with more money. Not sure how many of them really care if their cards are altered, as long as their grading company of choice remains in business.

I think a lot has changed in that NOW there is serious question what the correlation is between the number on the flip and the card that lies within. In contrast, in the infancy of grading, I suspect there was much less concern over the percentage of cards that were altered and whether they would pass undetected by the grading company. Yes, one could say that a collector not caring to see the card signifies that the grade matters more than the card's physical appearance. But underlying this statement would be the purchaser's assumption that the card is unaltered. Or, to put it another way, the fact that a purchaser doesn't care to see the actual card speaks only to the question that grade means more than APPEARANCE. It doesn't necesssarily follow that to such a purchaser grade means more than the card being UNALTERED.

[Lothar52]

Originally Posted by stone193

Altho this is very compelling - what do you plan to do about it?

Is this a problem with guys like Susor or PSA or both?

mike

I see it as a problem for both, especially after I just had a few cards denied by PSA for trimming because their "border were smooth"....and all of theborders were smooth....and they still were to size and what i believe not trimmed....but yet they graded these??? HUH?? one was a SGC crackout they said was trimmed..pfft!!!

Loth