Some National Thoughts

[Jewish-collector]

Daniel,

The National is not really for the financially challenged. My guess is that most of the "average" collectors who go to this show take between $2K and $5K looking for specific cards/memorabilia. It's all relative as I probably have the least amount to spend, so the $26 per day is a sizable chunk for me. But that's OK, because as Ronnie Milsap says, "I wouldn't miss it for the world".

We find EJM's comments about the East Coast and the plethora of advanced collectors to be an inane. Another “lower class commentary” from the same crowd that elected the government whose economic programs are sure to bankrupt America.

Wealthy, successful people have rights too. The joy of the National is having the opportunity to acquire truly unique items, and exchange collecting experiences with world class collectors.

Although we have not been able to attend the National for the past few years, we enjoyed 16 shows where we had the chance to see Four Base Hits, Texas Tommy's and an Old Judge advertising poster, and countless other rare items.

As for poor, pathetic EJM, when the National is New York City, we will provide him with a job cleaning bathrooms. Perhaps he will get lucky, and clean up after an advanced collector. That may be as close as he ever comes to tasting the joy of owning an ultra rare, high grade baseball card.

[zork1974]

For those of us in Canada, our National is the Sportcard and Memorabilia Expo at the International Centre in Toronto. It happens twice a year with a focus on mainly hockey collectables.

My friend and I attend every show with money to spend, usually thousands of dollars. We scour the floor looking for any vintage baseball that we can get our hands on. If we're lucky, we might find 5 tables out of the 900+ where there might be something to purchase.

My point is this. How many of us will pony up $50 for a meal with the family? How many of us will spend $40+ to go to the movies with our kids? I spend $50+ to attend each of these card shows and I know there is a good chance I'll be leaving with nothing. To me, it's an experience that I can only have twice a year. For those of you who get to attend the National every year, I'm jealous. I would pay $26 in an instant just to see all that eye candy in one room.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Wite3

How about putting a National in a city that is a flight hub like Pittsburgh, Atlanta, or Dallas.

Cleveland is a hub for Continental, but I do understand that they may not provide enough convenient flights for everyone.

[Ladder7]

Damn, I missed it! When did Cleveland lose it's 'Peepee Capital of America' status anyway?

I been there once. We had to make a beer run as our Amtrak train (enroute Great Mistakes, Ill for bootcamp) had run out of Highlife... I believe the River that runs through the city had spontaneously burst into flames at some point prior. And I thought WE had dirty water!

With our rich, ancient baseball traditions, The Hub needs to play host to the National. Then, I can finally make one. Beware however, It's rumored that Beantown is populated by overproud, pompous massholes

[Mrc32]

Originally Posted by Wite3

. How about putting a National in a city that is a flight hub like Pittsburgh, Atlanta, or Dallas. Cheaper airfare, hotels, and venues are probably more likely to be found in those cities.

Baltimore is a hub for Southwest Airlines. You should be able to get a reasonable flight.

[David W]

I live in Indiana, so Chicago and Cleveland are close.

I went to Chicago last year, and as a guy who drives in and spends one day and leaves, Cleveland is a much better alternative. I was in Chicago last year on a Thursday, Cleveland this year on Friday.

It's much easier to drive into the Cleveland IX than Rosemont. Chicago traffic at 9:00 A.M. is just not worth it. Chicago traffic at 6:00 is just not worth it. I still remember the drive back, a bad accident on 94 south had traffic completely stopped on Thursday, I managed to get off and take an alternate route that added 50 miles to the trip, but at least I didn't spent 3 hours not moving.

I took $700 to spend, I'm guessing that I'm within range of what the majority of people walking around had to spend. I spent most of it.

My guess is way more "average joe's" show up at a National, than guys looking to spend $10K. I saw a lot more "action" at tables with bargain boxes than high end PSA graded stuff. There were a lot of set collectors scrounging through commons boxes filling out sets.

There were a lot of friendly dealers, there were a lot of un friendly dealers. I spent all my money with friendly dealers who would chit chat for a while.

[Ejm1]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

We find EJM's comments about the East Coast and the plethora of advanced collectors to be an inane. Another “lower class commentary” from the same crowd that elected the government whose economic programs are sure to bankrupt America.

Wealthy, successful people have rights too. The joy of the National is having the opportunity to acquire truly unique items, and exchange collecting experiences with world class collectors.

Although we have not been able to attend the National for the past few years, we enjoyed 16 shows where we had the chance to see Four Base Hits, Texas Tommy's and an Old Judge advertising poster, and countless other rare items.

As for poor, pathetic EJM, when the National is New York City, we will provide him with a job cleaning bathrooms. Perhaps he will get lucky, and clean up after an advanced collector. That may be as close as he ever comes to tasting the joy of owning an ultra rare, high grade baseball card.

Thanks for the kind words. Maybe I'll get lucky and meet you someday.

[David W]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

We find EJM's comments about the East Coast and the plethora of advanced collectors to be an inane. Another “lower class commentary” from the same crowd that elected the government whose economic programs are sure to bankrupt America.

Wealthy, successful people have rights too. The joy of the National is having the opportunity to acquire truly unique items, and exchange collecting experiences with world class collectors.

Although we have not been able to attend the National for the past few years, we enjoyed 16 shows where we had the chance to see Four Base Hits, Texas Tommy's and an Old Judge advertising poster, and countless other rare items.

As for poor, pathetic EJM, when the National is New York City, we will provide him with a job cleaning bathrooms. Perhaps he will get lucky, and clean up after an advanced collector. That may be as close as he ever comes to tasting the joy of owning an ultra rare, high grade baseball card.

The joy of the National is having the opportunity to acquire truly unique items, and exchange collecting experiences with world class collectors.

Maybe for you, but not for me. And unfortunately for you, you're outnumbered, plus you don't even attend it anymore, so your opinion really doesn't matter anymore, does it?

[Exhibitman]

Just want to clarify one issue: my comments re Cleveland are not based on snobbery, coastal resident superiority (last time I checked Chicago wasn't on either coast) or anything other than a sincere desire for the best National experience possible. Anyone who's gone to Rosemont and to IX has to agree that the Rosemont venue is better in every respect, for the same money.

[boysblue]

How about taking the National international? Head north to Toronto.

Failing that, Baltimore is a welcome change and I think it will be an enormously successful show. Need to include an east coast location into the rotation.

Cleveland? I-X Centre does lack a certain "charm", though it is handy to the airport and a wide range of hotel choices.

[Tim Fritz]

I went to my first National last year in Chicago and will go again when it heads back in 2011. As a low-end vintage collector I looked at going to the National as visit to a museum and a card show in one.

I got to see cards and memorabilia that I've never seen in person before and spent a few hundred bucks along the way. Also got to meet and talk with fellow collectors. I was the sponge. The $100 or so I spent to get there, park and get in would be the same as going to a museum in Chicago. I thought the admission price was very fair.

One thing that I thought would be cool is to have more of an entrance area that grabs your attention. You could have music/videos playing in there maybe for people that want a break from the floor or get you juiced up to being at world class card show. I know it all adds to the bottom line, but just my 2 cents worth.

[danmckee]

Great thread!!! Cleveland I-X center has easy access to onsight bars, Chicago did not, nuff said on which location is better.

Sales wise, my 3 best shows ever were: Cleveland, Cleveland, and Cleveland.

Though this show was good for me, it wasn't one of my best 3.

I did manage to go from a priority 28 to a priority 3 and will now be at the very back of the Baltimore National with probably the best display in the show as I will be bringing out much of my personal Baltimore collection for sale.

I think someone forgot that we are exempt from all Anaheim shows since we were robbed in 1991 and counted me missing those shows against me.

I can't win

[Dan Carson]

I think the National should be held on the west coast, until cooler heads prevail!

[tbob]

I thought I read somewhere where the people who organized the great National in Arlington, Texas (Dallas) either passed away or due to bad health were no longer able to participate. Wanda Marcus and her husband maybe? I believe it was in the early 90's. I bought my first tobacco cards at that National so it holds a special place in my heart. Someone also mentioned Kansas City. There used to be a terrific show there in the 90's which rivaled the National but I haven't heard anything about it in many years.
Boston? Would be great. I'd love to go to New Orleans or Vegas also but my thought is that they are probably out of the question

[Rich Klein]

IIRC; she had elective surgery for a torn rotator cuff so she could play more golf and do less work. Sadly; she never woke up from the surgery.

Our show may be too big for the current Arlington Convention Center and the Dallas Convention Center being downtown would mean even more of a ghost town on Sunday of the National and before. However; soon at least we'll be able to walk to the CC from the Host Hotel.

IIRC; Market Hall in Dallas has enough room for the show; but no one other than me seems to like that location for a show in the DFW area.

Rich

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Market Hall in Dallas has enough room for the show; but no one other than me seems to like that location for a show in the DFW area.

Rich

I do!!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bicem

I do!!!!

I vote for Dallas since there are no Convention Centers (or barely street lights) in Lucas TX......

[Joe Hunter]

tBob: The great shows you were referring to in KC were promoted by John Mailen and Jim Cumpton. They started in the early to mid "80's and ran through the very early '90's. They always had great autograph guests(Mantle, Williams, DiMaggio, etc), and their fees were very reasonable. Tristar also had some decent shows after Mailen and Cumpton ended theirs, but I didn't think they were as good. As much as I would like to see a National in KC, the venue is just not there. KC is more suited for regional shows, which have been few and far between.

[Jewish-collector]

TriStar used to have a 3-day show in Overland Park, Kansas. It used to be fantastic. Not sure why it didn't last.

[Rich Klein]

Tri-Star has put their energies into more autograph ventures; minor league sets and the occassional show. I believe they now just do a couple in Houston and one in SF.

KC is open for someone else to step in and I believe some promoters have tried.

Rich

[Vintagedegu]

-

[toppcat]

Strong regional shows (say 250 tables) are something sorely needed in this hobby, as are strong city/local suburbs type shows (125-150 tables). Maybe with ebay turning into a wasteland we'll see shows again like this.

[HexsHeroes]

By my count, from 1980 - 2009, the National has been held in the following cities:

7x Chicago, IL
5x Anaheim, CA
5x Cleveland, OH
2x Arlington, TX
2x Atlanta, GA
2x Atlantic City, NJ
2x St. Louis, MO
1x Detroit, MI
1x Houston, TX
1x Los Angeles, CA
1x Parsippany, NJ (across from NYC0
1x San Francisco, CA


I am sure other locations continue to be investigated, with a strong emphasis on accessibility, lodging, costs, climate, etc.

Some of the other significant cities that came to my mind for outside consideration include:

Richmond, VA
Philadelphia, PA
Pittsburgh, PA
Cincinnati, OH
Lexington, KY
Indianapolis, IN
Minneapolis, MN
Milwaukee, WS
Des Moines, IA
Wichita, KS
Lincoln, NE
Omaha, NE
Denver, CO
Reno, NV

I am sure there are some wonderful options in Oregon or Washington state too.

[Jim VB]

In talking to Mike Berkus yesterday, the first thing he mentioned is that any potential site have 300,000 square feet of exhibitor space, all on one level. Baltimore will be right at that minimum.

If that condition is met, they move on to things like hotels (prices and availability), parking, union rules, etc.

That size venue will eliminate an awful lot of potential locations.

[autograf]

Lexington KY is out.............not enough floor space. Louisville would be in based on that though. No major league teams in about 2/3 of your list above too. Typically the home team (or one of them) is home when the national is in play. Is that a dealbreaker? Not for me but just saying..........

[Jewish-collector]

Does Pittsburgh have a facility large enough ? You would think the organizers would like to take advantage of the city's success in FB and hockey.

[slidekellyslide]

[QUOTE=HexsHeroes;740400]
I am sure other locations continue to be investigated, with a strong emphasis on accessibility, lodging, costs, climate, etc.

Some of the other significant cities that came to my mind for outside consideration include:


Lincoln, NE
Omaha, NE

[/QUOTE

Neither Omaha or Lincoln have facilities large enough for the National. Lincoln does have the Lancaster Event Center which I'm sure has enough square footage, but it's spread out over 5 buildings...there is definitely ample parking and all the buildings are very close together. Would never happen though. Heck, I'd settle for a card show in just one of the buildings...the only show that goes on around here is 2-3 times at the mall...and that's just a joke...only once have I seen anyone there with pre WW1 material and it was outrageously priced.

[mberkus]

Hi, been reading all the posts and as you all probably figured out, there are as many opinions as collectors. Anyway, here is an update, we signed a 3 show deal in Chicago (2011, 2013, 2015). This was instituted basically because we were threatened by a local promotor to take over the Rosemont location and prevent us from running any future shows. Sad, but we did prevail. This was attempted by the Sportfest group 8 years ago as well. Seems like none of the smaller regional shows are happy just running their own event, they try very hard to kill the National. So far it's the National 3 Obsolete Shows 0. I am sure another group will try again.

So, we have Balt 2010, Chicago 2011, Cleveland 2012, Chicago 2013, 2014 is open, 2015 is Chicago. We are looking at Atlantic City, Las Vegas, I will try Anaheim again, Dallas, St. Louis, and Boston.

As for Toronto, lots of rules and regulations about going back and forth. I heard horror stories from dealers taking inventories across the border. Plus, not sure about facilities or taxes?

KC has not produced a sucessful show in years, not sure why but it seems that many of the cities that had very popular annual shows have died off for the same reason....eBay? When we started the National, Detroit, St.Louis, Indianapolis, KC, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Philly, Mpls, Long Island, Pittsburg, San Francisco, Seattle, Arizona, North Carolina, and NJ had tons of shows and all solid. TriStar and Naxcom tried to reinstate the local regional theme and to the best of my knowledge, just found very little interest.

Well, just remember, you don't attend the National for the food, bathrooms, parking, hotels, sightseeing, or weather. As long as the dealers are buying and selling the best of the best, it becomes a great mecca for all of us serious collectors.

Check out the ESPN coverage of the show, very positive.

Thanks again for caring, without the emotion, we have nothing.

Regards,

Mike Berkus

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mberkus

Well, just remember, you don't attend the National for the food, bathrooms, parking, hotels, sightseeing, or weather.

True, but having a crappy facility, etc., when a nice one can be had just as easily doesn't make a lot of sense. It also dissuades some guys whose families come to these events from showing up. At least a few friends of mine did not make the trip this year because their families rebelled. Granted, you could argue that the guys should probably have hitched up their skirts, found their nards, and made the trip solo, but you can't criticize them too much for acquiescing to their families' demands for a better vacation than Cleveland. My point is that the National rotation is alienating a portion of the customer base, which can't be good for anyone, and is doing so needlessly.

Vegas, Baby! That would be soooo choice.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Vegas, Baby! That would be soooo choice.

You don't think customers would spend some of their card buying budget elsewhere if the Nat was in Vegas?

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by mberkus

...we signed a 3 show deal in Chicago (2011, 2013, 2015).

...it seems that many of the cities that had very popular annual shows have died off for the same reason....

No arguments at all with Chicago - great facility & easy to get to.

Local shows are kaput. They're too inefficient and inconvenient for buyers and sellers. Tristar has pulled out of SF, for example. If they can't run a successful show in an area where millions of people are within one hour's drive, the writing is on the wall.

I like that Las Vegas idea.


Bill

[leadoff4]

I would think Orlando, FL would be a great fit. Not only would it have a great destination(Disney World) for the family. It also has a MLB team within an hour and beaches all around. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I remember a show at the Orange County Convention Center back around 2000/01. Since the Orlando Magic are moving into a new arena, that leaves the Amway Arena as a possible venue.

[rc4157]

Mike - Thanks for keeping us updated, much appreciated.

I know Cleveland still has a poor image, but in reality it isn't the "mistake by the lake" that it once was. People can find things to do in almost any city if they really want to.

I hope to get to Chicago in 2 years after reading the positive comments regarding their show, once you beat the traffic it sounds like a good time!

RC

[Matt]

While I completely understand the family angle, not having too many other attraction/distractions may not be the worst thing as people won't mind spending extra time at the show or coming back for another day.

How's that for spin.

[benjulmag]

To build on what Exhibitman said, I think it is a misnomer to call this show the National if basically it is a ping pong match between Cleveland and Chicago, with an occasional other city thrown in from time to time. Cleveland and Chicago are great baseball towns with I'm sure substantial collecting bases. But unless we want to call this a show just for the dealers and wealthy collectors (who can afford the expense of airfare/lodging, etc.), I think it is being very short-sighted to continually ignore other parts of the country.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Matt

You don't think customers would spend some of their card buying budget elsewhere if the Nat was in Vegas?

I seriously doubt it. We collectors have already proven our obsessiveness by traveling to third rate cities with fourth rate facilities just to chase old cardboard. I have yet to hear of anyone dropping their card budget on attractions, food, accommodations, etc., even in the purportedly more interesting locales that have hosted shows in the past (Anaheim, SF, AC, etc.). If anything, the increased attendance from having a first rate destination that our families will want to visit would more than offset any attraction-related losses. I'd bet (pun intended) that some collectors who won't go to some of the cities mentioned as possible hosts will go to Vegas and that some collectors who visit the show for a day or two would extend their stays.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by leadoff4

I would think Orlando, FL would be a great fit.

Here's another vote for Orlando, FL

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Vegas, Baby! That would be soooo choice.

Ditto

[perezfan]

I love the Las Vegas idea as well... they should give at least some consideration to the West, and the convention center there can surely accomodate.

Another factor nobody has mentioned is airport accessability and the nimber of direct flights. Las Vegas has tons of direct flights, and can accomodate travelers as well as any city. Connecting flights/limited selection of flights are a real pain, and this factor influences whether or not people decide to attend.

Another Western city that hasn't been mentioned much is Denver. Again, it provides easy access from most areas in the U.S. and has a Major League Team (if that's a factor that matters to people).

Lastly, San Diego is a great city and a place that people LOVE to visit. Not sure about their convention center's size, but I know it's a recently new/improved one, and sits right on the beautiful harbor. It's easily walkable to scores of hotels, bars, good restauraunts, the Gaslamp Quarter, etc. Plus, they have a major league baseball team and lots of other nearby attractions for those who make a vacation out of it (Beach, Zoo, Sea World, Tijuana, etc.). You can easily walk from the Convention Center to Petco Park (as well as tons of restaurants and bars) in about 5 minutes. There cannot be a better venue!

Hopefully, it's not asking too much for perhaps 1 out of every 8 shows to be west of the Mississippi?

[Rich Klein]

In reality, the best option (and I know this would upset some people) is the Rosemont facility every year. Good central location; Near Major Highways; near an airport; good public transportation close to the show; you can stay at a hotel to your budget concern and if you park where the train lets off; you can save quite a bit on parking and the walk is really not that bad. Also within a reasonable drive of many mid-west collecting hubs (St Louis; Milwaukee; Detroit,..)

In April; I was up for a family wedding and visited the area around the Baltimore Convention Center. Most of the same positives I mentioned for Chicago is there as well and with any luck we will have Orioles Home Games during the convention. No guarantee on that as the AL schedule is not released until September at the earliest. Also within a reasonable drive of NY City on south (4-5 hours from NYC) and only about 2 hours from Philly. Excellent customer base -- and I'm sure Papa John; MB and Mr. Wilke will do a good job promoting the show. (As an aside; I saw many people at this year's National who obviously had never attended a show before and they had merchandise to sell)

Hey; I'm glad I started this thread. I'm glad we kept it courteous and I'm very appreciative that Mike B came and posted and kept us updated. Mike; you know me for a long time -- if you wish whenever you have important updates I'll be happy to post them to this board for you.

I, personally, still like my hours suggestions (Those can be tweaked) and the varied pricing approach. The varied pricing approach -- can be equated to the Ballpark in Arlington, which is.. I expect and it is now being done, to spend more money for a weekend series versus the Astros; Red Sox or Yankees than I do for a mid-week August series versus the Royals. That does NOT IMHO take $$$ out of the promoter's pockets but helps them better allocate resources and i would rather not see on 2 PM Sunday a dead show; instead, I would like dealers fighting to stay!

At one time; I was told there were only 10 facilities in the country that could handle the National. So, remember; we are still limited in our choices due to logistics.

Gosh; this has been a good thread -- and I'm really looking forward to the next 2 years.

Regards
Rich

[tinkereversandme]

I have certain issues every year with the National. Of course the admission and parking is criminal. I have issues with how sad the National is now, compared to when I started going in the mid-1980's. There is no energy. It's frail and ill. It's a different world of collecting with eBay, auction houses, the death of the current Baseball Cards and such.

I pointed to a card in a dealers cases. A rather common 1950's football semi-star with an SMR of $85. His price? $225! That same card can be found on eBay for about $90-100 and BIN's for around $150.

Since one of the people behind the National is on here, I must say that I understand that it's not your fault, but what these past and present athletes charge for signatures is simply stupid. There is nothing sadder than seeing a big name athlete charge three figures for something, sign like thirty signatures total and then sit there. Leave these guys home. I would prefer a quantity of common guys for $10-15 per who normally don't do many signings than what I saw.

How many times can Jim Brown or Joe Namath or Joe Montana do a show? Geez.

Las Vegas makes too much sense. Convention Capitol of the U.S.

Larry

[Rich Klein]

That is done by the Convention Center. The biggest problem with parking in Cleveland, is unlike Chicago, there is no cheaper outlet. If you wish to walk a bit in Chicago, I belive parking is $3 for the day at the CTA station. If you read my original treatise; my point was on admission charges NOT on parking. Let's focus on what we can change; not what the promoters have no say over.

Here is an example of that; due to union rules at the I/X Center; if you wish to carry out your merchandise; you must use a two wheeler. They will stop you at the door with a four wheeler. The promoters have no control over that and again we learn to live within those rules.

The autographs are also not part of the promoters reach. IIRC; they contract with Tri-Star to bring in autograph guests. Tri-Star does a great job with that and the autographs are for all price levels from nominal to $200+. That is not really an issue either as the autograph flow does not affect the show traffic. And again; another reason why I don't mind the promoters selling MVP or Super MVP tickets; etc. Some of the cheaper autographs become free with the higher end badges and that is fine. To use another ballpark in Arlington analogy; when I go to Rangers games with my friend whose tickets are six rows behind the visitors dugout; we also have the right to enter the gold club. Somone in the bleachers does not have that same option. The cost of the ticket is also much more for the better seat.

Regards
Rich

[terjung]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Here's another vote for Orlando, FL

Another vote for Orlando here as well!

[Reginald Marsh]

Rich is correct that the show could be held in Chi-town every year. The Rosemont is simply the best building in the hobby and there is always a buzz in that place.

I had no complaints about Cleveland and i thought the IX-Center was very easily found from any direction. I thought the Legendary auction was alot of fun to.

Even though alot of the cards were over priced all one had to do was hustle and there were bigtime bargains. One table had cards at 4.00 dollars a piece or 20 for 60 dollars and i was not even going to stop but a 1971 PSA high number 8 was on top of one pile, all of the cards were graded by PSA and i bought 30 PSA 7 to 8 1971 high numbers and alot of other cards for 3.00 bucks a piece and i do not normally fool around with lower end cards so there really was a bargain for everyone.

If anyone stopped by my cases i was practically giving things away, it was almost comical at the ridiculous low prices i quoted just to watch people think if it was a good deal or not.

The National is like any other show where the early bird gets the worm, you have to be there early and know what you are looking for and there are great deals to be had, if you plan on showing up on Saturday and waltzing around most of the great deals are already snatched up.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

In reality, the best option (and I know this would upset some people) is the Rosemont facility every year. Good central location; Near Major Highways; near an airport; good public transportation close to the show; you can stay at a hotel to your budget concern and if you park where the train lets off; you can save quite a bit on parking and the walk is really not that bad. Also within a reasonable drive of many mid-west collecting hubs (St Louis; Milwaukee; Detroit,..)


Regards
Rich

I would go every year if it were in Chicago.

[Brian Weisner]

Me too....
Be well Brian


PS Cubs, Golf, and great food....

[Jewish-collector]

I guess I'm in the minority that I really like the National in Cleveland. I just hate that $8 parking fee each day.

[Reginald Marsh]

Alan.....i went to the Baltimore National coin show and parking was 20 dollars per day, get ready for next year because the parking will be expensive.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I guess I'm in the minority that I really like the National in Cleveland. I just hate that $8 parking fee each day.

Go park in one of the area hotels and take their free shuttle service to & from the IX center