Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame

[docpatlv]

Doing a quick bit of research, I found...

"Current rules ask voters to consider a player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, CHARACTER, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

So William, based on that criteria alone, perhaps Rose should not be allowed in, but then what about the racists (Cobb, Anson), alcoholics (Mantle), adulterers (Ruth), spitballers-vaseliners-emory boarders (Niekro, Perry).

What is your take on the "Character" issue?

Mike

[chaddurbin]

i think you're missing the point...that rose himself agreed and signed a document stating he's barred for life from baseball. his stats is hof-worthy, too bad he took himself out of the running! for him to make a scene now after giamatti has passed away is a disgrace.

[ChiefBenderForever]

I have no problem with Rose not being in the hall as long as they remove Anson, Cobb, Speaker, and a few others who played as hard as Rose and had the stats but had major character flaws which included gambling as well.

[docpatlv]

Quan,

I don't know 100% of what transpired, but I believe Rose signed the document because he painted himself into a corner. Athletes break contracts all the time. I understand that this is a different scenario, but what I'm trying to say is that it's not that cut and dry.

Maybe I am missing the point...My point is, based on his accomplishments as a player, he deserves induction. Noone can argue that. It's not as if he's trying to climb over the pearly gates.

[docpatlv]

William,

Phil Niekro and Gaylord Perry also had direct effects on the outcomes of games when they used illegal substances to their advantage. Mantle being hung-over many times over the course of his career probably had some impact on the outcomes of games.

All I'm trying to say is that people make mistakes, and to hold that over their heads until they're dead just doesn't make sense. If you can't agree to that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Mike

[nolemmings]

if memory serves, the a$$hole signed the paper acknowledging that he should be banned, then after Bart passed away, he whined that he had some sort of unwritten, wink and a nod deal with Bart that he would be reinstated after a short time, and that he never bet on baseball but was signing the deal just to give everybody a non-messy out. Lying sack of $hit finally fessed up only recently that he in fact bet on baseball. Even though it would have been ugly, I always wanted a full blown hearing on that wooshbag, with him giving that defiant denial as each and every nail in his coffin was hammered. He should be shown for the selfish, narcissistic and lying dick that he is.

[docpatlv]

Todd,

Are you related to Ray Fosse?

As a somewhat ironic side note, I grew up in the town that Ray Fosse is from (Marion, Il). His mother was a patient of my father and she had Ray sign a bunch of memorabilia to give to me and my brother. Well, you know where Pete served his time...let's just say he wasn't warmly welcomed.

I won't argue that Rose may be conceited and as you put it a "dick", but again, I base my opinion moreso on Pete's accomplishments on the field. I only mentioned the character issue to try to help argue my point (don't think it worked).

Mike

[nolemmings]

Sorry if I came across so heavy handed--can you tell I'm not a fan of Pete?
I understand your position--no question the guy could play. I'm all for second chances too, but not for the Hall. I'm not saying the guy should be denied a job, housing, or medical care, or forced to live in a leper colony. Just cannot honor and exalt him to Cooperstown. I think most already enshrined would agree.

Of course, were you to sell me some of your px7 discs, I could reconsider my position

[docpatlv]

Todd,

I promise I will check to see what PX7 doubles I have. I think I may only have around 5-6 so I will try to send some scans/prices when I get a chance.

I wrote an article for Old Cardboard, but Lyman wanted me to revise and rescan things and it just never came into fruition.

I'll send an e-mail soon

Mike

[william_9]

I think ultimately what happens is that the character of the player is judged using the standard of their time. No one would condone the actions of a Cap Anson or Ty Cobb these days, and their careers would probably end as a result. Albert Joey Belle is a pretty good modern day example. If he were a decent human being he'd probably have a lot more opportunities and thus a better shot at the Hall.

The list of questionable off-field, and sometimes on-field, offenses that are represented in Cooperstown are shocking considering the status that these names hold. However, when viewed within the context of their time, a racist in 1910 represents a huge portion of society. It's not right, but it's reality. Even a drunk like Mantle would be run into rehab today. That option didn't really exist in the 60's. The issue was squashed, swept under the rug, and forgotten. Heroes weren't made to look weak back then.

As for modern day voting, it's my belief that the game, and how the player represents it, is what matters. Pete Rose disrespected the game by betting on games that he had direct control of. That's not good for baseball. Neither is having Barry Bonds represent a generation of "me first" players. I think Bonds will pay the same price. Then again, no one likes Bonds as a human being either.

[william_9]

Interestingly, Cum Posey, who was elected in 2006 during the Negro League vote, was known to have ties to gambling, and was a number runner himself. I'm not sure if anyone knows if he was involved in any baseball gambling. I'm sure we could speculate, but there's no telling why that committee voted the way they did. Whether it was purely baseball or if they considered other social and character elements in their vote.