'William Tell Research' Autograph Authentication?

[jeffects]

Please forgive me for pasting a portion of my earlier post. (My first) I think it's applicable to this topic as well and didn't feel like retyping it. As I read this thread I found myself agreeing with Bluebird and saw how quickly he was set upon because he disagreed with some. I'm glad he turned out to be legit and was reinstated. Good diligence Leon.


I have little use for 3rd party authenticators who sell their wares and denounce anyone other than their friends items or their own merchandise. One claims a so called double major from an Ivy league university. First item in the resume and is apparently a documented lie. As many of these bogus and laughably inflated resumes seem to be. PSA and JSA are not the end all to beat all either. Another proudly claims to have obtained 100,000 "in person" autographs in 20 years. That's 1 per hour, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for twenty years. (And still 10,000 short) Sorry, I have trouble believing that. These are the same folks that are quick to call other items fake. I even had an "in person" Ali called a forgery. Not that it couldn't be verified authentic (which is fine) but an outright forgery. I believe these same folks are involved with ebay and can bounce items seemingly at will. Although I've never sold an autograph on ebay so I'm not too familiar how that works. They all have their own agenda and in most cases, I think it's driven by greed. Liars and crooks are killing this hobby. (No offense Shelly, but you did plenty of damage prior to seeing the light, AFTER you were caught) And there are plenty of them.

[pscolgrafs]

The one thing that has to stop is the Shelly Jaffe bashing. He was a small fish in all of it, he got in trouble, did his time and while others are surely still involved in one way or another in betraying more victims, or even simply being silent, Shelly is no longer associated with his past and has become quite vocal about the current state of this business.

Who better to know how these crooks operate than a one-time member of that familiar world. After all, Frank Abagande whose life was depicted in the movie "Catch Me If You Can" was one of the biggest document and check forgers, and after twelve years of imprisonment, he now owns a successful business that helps detect forgeries. There is no difference to what Frank does and what Shelly is doing. He knows what you guys are doing and that just pisses you off, doesn't it?

The one comment that I found amusing is the "didn't get caught" theory. The hobby is absolutely littered with fraudulent characters who have never been caught, will never get caught, have been caught or are soon to be caught.

If you take a piece of paper and forge Babe Ruth's name on it, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL!, whether you get caught or not...Title 18, statute 1341, Mail Fraud (as well as Wire Fraud)--profitting off false pretences...and along those same lines you have Wire Fraud and counts which involve perpetrating a scheme and using the U.S Mail service to assist in the distribution of fraudulent goods. The tough part for the law is proving that you are a thief, not an idiot...in regards to you "knowingly" selling bogus merchandise. If you are knowingly selling fraudulent goods, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL!

Oh, when the Morales thread was running strong, I was harrassed by this one e-mailer and now he has returned to harrass me. Hmmmm...

Lastly, how many people on this thread come from the wonderful state of PA? Show of hands please !!!!!!!!

[jeffects]

Quite honestly, This last comment is so stupid. Shelly bashing. Boo Hoo. Because the facts are the facts? The truth is the truth. Get a life. a thief is a thief. How about all criminals teach us how to protect ourselves from "bad" criminals that haven't been caught yet. I will bash any thief I want and don't need your permission. Oh yeah, don't forget to read OJ's book "If I did it" I'm sure it's very informative and he was acquitted so we should all accept that and move on. What a joke you are.

[jeffects]

Which poster here e-mailed you on a Morales issue Genius? Certainly not me, Was that your idiotic contention? If that's your claim you are a liar. Easy to prove. Ask Leon. I'm from California you jack ball, if that means anything to you. Do you even have a clue what wire fraud is? I do.

[jeffects]

Okay, so let me ask this question of the new and reformed, wonderful Shelly. Of all the people you ripped off for thousands of dollars, from all the sincere people you stole from, who trusted you. how much effort did you make to return their money to them? As opposed to how much you kept. How much did you steal and how much did you return to the victims? Easy question and the first step to salvation.

[J.McMurry]

Jeffects,

You stated that you found yourself agreeing with Bluebird, I'm just curious as to what points you agreed with.

on a side note, you would come off better without the name calling,but it's your choice.

[RichardSimon]

Do we really have to get to this level on this thread?
I have known Shelly for a long time. Ok, he made a mistake 10 years ago. He admits it. He confessed it and he was punished for it. Right now though, he is one of the most trusted people in the hobby for Tim Fitzsimmons, FBI agent in charge of Operation Bullpen. And yes, I have talked to Tim on a number of occasions. Shelly is also trusted by ebay and many members of this board.
He has worked harder than anyone I know to try and inform collectors about forgeries and to help in the seemingly hopeless effort to try and expose forgers and forgeries. He has done things to fight the crooks constantly. He does not come here and brag about it, but he is constantly working to improve this mess of a hobby. Can any of the negative posters on this thread say the same thing about themselves. Shelly probably has done more in a week to help than the flamers have done in their lifetimes.
There seems to be a bitterness here from 1 or 2 people that surpasses even the threads about politics (and I have been in the middle of those). I am sure I will get at least one response for this post, let us see if it can be done without juvenile name calling and low class language. If you have a grudge against anyone, posting in a low class manner only makes the poster look the fool.

[ss]

It's actually less than 100 per week for 20 years, just to be accurate.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ss

Another proudly claims to have obtained 100,000 "in person" autographs in 20 year

What he forgot to mention is that he works as a petition-signer-upper in front of the local Costco.

[drc]

Vintagedegu,

A legitimate appraiser of high end art, ala million dollar Rembrandt, would/should be confident of the authenticity before giving appraisal. Either he/she would be an expert or would get the opinion of a reliable expert. The item may already come with strong documentation and provenance (ala receipt and catalog from purchase at Sotheby's). She may not be personally and financially guaranteeing the authenticity, but she would confident in it. It goes without saying that there is a value difference between original Rembrandt painting and a 1977 copy.

It's in stuff like home appraisal where they won't/can't authenticate the whole contents. A family might own T206s, autographs, lamps, tables and chairs, figurines, game used jersey, inexpensive paintings etc and no one person is an expert in all that. The appraiser just reviews the stuff, look at LOAs and receipts when deemed necessary and gives an overall value. The appraiser is basically an official documenter. Though if, in the process, he comes across something that he knows is fake or a reprint, he will value it at as a fake or a reprint. Just don't expect a home contents appraiser to sit down with a microscope and black light to authenticate each hockey card in Bobby's shoe box, before going off to authenticate mom's antique perfume bottle collection and dad's box of vintage car parts.

I make no comment on the eBay Picasso painting, other than to note is was being sold as "attributed to Picasso" and "this art piece is sold as attributed/manor of Picasso." The seller doesn't say doesn't say it is "by Picasso." It appears even the seller isn't convinced by the accompanying documentation