Whats with the crazy deals on GAI cards?

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Posted By: kirk

I know at this point, and especially with the fiasco of them closing (or not closing) etc... Thats GAI's "stock" is low right now within the hobby, and maybe some of their trust & rep has been tarnished.... But I've been seeing some crazy crazy well below book deals on GAI cards on ebay lately. I just saw a PSA going for just above beckett book value, and a GAI graded the same, going for almost HALF of that.

I've seen it alot lately... GAI cards selling well below book value. Is GAI known for overgrading? I only (as of today) own ONE GAI card, and it's a 7.5. I look at it and see a 7, but regardless, it's no 6!?! It was still sold %50 UNDER book value, and the others on ebay that were PSA 7's went for well OVER book. I don't get it. I'm of course a collector, and the condition of the card itself, and not the slab, is most important.... But I also like to know my investment is intact....

Your thoughts on the subject are very appreciated!
=)

-K

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Posted By: Jason L

when their rep comes under fire, people start to assume the worst regarding all of the product, and fears of authenticity and alteration are skyrocketing.

So now, for instance, instead of someone looking at a GAI 7 card, people are no longer thinking, "I'll bet PSA and SGC would only give it a 6"....NOW, everyone looks at that card and says, "Gee, I wonder if it's not trimmed, or if it's even REAL!?"

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Posted By: leon

Their recent fiasco has hurt them as well as their over grading of cards since inception (at least in public perception). It seems they didn't capitalize on Mike Baker's status in the hobby when they needed too. Most collectors look at their graded cards with a skeptical eye and therefore the prices are low....I recently crossed a GAI 6 E91 Caramel and got an SGC 60...I was still happy....best regards

edited typo

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Posted By: Kirk

Well, I figured that their recent reputation issues were coming into play, but what I don't understand is why that would affect values so much. They didnt close the doors because the market was scoffing at their grading. Has there been any known cases of trimmed cards being slabbed by GAI? There certainly has with PSA.... Even fakes. Yet the cards in PSA holders are selling for well over book... I'm about to bid on a card tat I could not afford in a PSA holder.

Everyone still lists GAI among the the top 4 major / trusted graders. If there are known cases of trimmed cards being slabbed by GAI it would definitely help sway my decision.

Thanks ..

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Posted By: leon

No one and no grading company is perfect. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that there are trimmed cards in all of the grading companies holders. My guess is they would agree with me. Now, that being said, who is doing the best job and what will have the best long term value? My vote still goes to SGC. Others think PSA. That is fine too. The problem with GAI is a compound one. First off they have a poor reputation for grading a little too loosely. It's not just me, but most vintage collectors, have thought that was the case for a long time. Then their latest fiasco and excuses about what happened have left a vote of "no confidence" in a lot of collectors eyes. I have nothing personally against them and have met several of their employees. They all seem like nice folks. Their PR (public relations) has not been very good, imho. They could have easily come on community chatboards and explained what was going on. Instead they went into some silent periods and that hurt them a lot....Who knows if they will be able to come back or not? Regardless of the company always buy the card and not the holder. Most of this board feels comfortable with SGC's and PSA's services.....best regards

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

I have submitted two high grade cards in GAI holders to PSA for cross-over, both within the past year and a half, and in both cases the cards were returned to me in the original holders with the designation EVID TRIM. Two cards is a small sample, but this does make me wonder what is going on. It seems to me that there are three possibilities to explain this:

(1) The cards in the GAI holders were in fact trimmed, or appeared to be so, and PSA detected this.

(2) PSA has a tendency to summarily reject GAI cards and return them to the submitter as "altered," as a marketing ploy to plant the thought in collectors' minds that their competitor GAI doesn't know how to grade or even authenticate cards, and that it would be much less risky to buy cards that are in PSA holders.

(3) PSA is becoming increasingly conservative when it comes to cross-overs, and are trying to avoid getting in a situation where they crack a card out, and then find on closer inspection that they can't meet the minimum grade specified by the submitter, or even holder the card as unaltered. So to be on the safe side, they just reject the card out of hand. They may be particularly leery of GAI-graded cards, which would suggest that they don't fully trust GAI's conclusions regarding alteration.

I think (1) is unlikely, though certainly possible, and I have no evidence that (2) is true, so my guess is that (3) is the most likely explanation.

Does anyone else have any experience crossing cards from GAI to PSA that could shed some light on this?

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Posted By: Andrew S.

I would never purchase a GAI graded card. With regard to crossover, it is a mistake to send slabbed cards for crossover. I've much better luck breaking them out and submitting. Giving graders a point of reference right off the bat by sending a competitor's slab can sometimes work out fine, but most often is a recipe for disaster.

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Posted By: Marc S.

killed my interest in 1955 Bowmans.

A huge number of 1955 Bowmans were trimmed, reglossed, and the vast majority of them made their way into high-grade GAI holders. Some even into PSA holders. I have had both PSA, Kevin Saucier and some other noted collectors review a number of the high-grade GAI 1955 Bowman cards outside of their holder. There is no doubt in my mind that GAI's grading is an absolute joke. Between horrible service, dozens, if not hundreds of unfulfilled promises, and overgrading and grading of altered cards -- I would not consider over 99.9% of GAI cards for any reason.

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Posted By: Kirk

I'm glad I started this topic. I see GAI listed everywhere as one of the top 4.

I've really been on the fence on one card in particluar, and I've been hungry for this card for a long time... If the gap between value on a 6 & a 7 on this card wasn't such a jump, I'd roll the dice and buy it and if it didn't cross over no biggie.... But wow, I had no idea their rep was so bad in regards to their grading.

This forum is great. Thanks again.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

1955 Bowman's are a very unique case. I opened about one box worth of cards from the Rosen find in the late 1980's and the variance of size in those cards were very large. I don't have the same problem with 55 Bowman's being slabbed even if too big or too small than I do with most other issues.

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I personally believe that all of the 3 major companies (PSA, SGC and GAI) have those that will support them and those that dislike them. I've had good and bad experiences with all three and I would not personally hesitate to buy a GAI graded card albeit as Leon says - buy the card, not the holder.

Also, there are certainly good experiences with GAI. I purchased a raw E95 Cobb for my E95 set. I wanted to make sure it wasn't trimmed so at a show, GAI was doing on-site submissions. I submitted it and it was graded a GAI 1. Later, as I worked towards completion of the set, I started getting the whole set graded by SGC. I cracked the Cobb, sent it to SGC and it came back a 30. Not a bad bump from the company that specializes in pre-war.

Likewise, I purchased a GAI 2 E95 Willis on eBay for something like $60.00 last year. I submitted to SGC for crossover and although they wouldn't give it a 30 (2 equiv), they did give it a 20. Again, I was very happy with an SGC 20 Willis for $60.00.

I trust GAI to get the authenticity of the card correct and I certainly can make a determination as to whether the grade appears to be warranted or not.

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Posted By: Marc S.

<<1955 Bowman's are a very unique case. I opened about one box worth of cards from the Rosen find in the late 1980's and the variance of size in those cards were very large. I don't have the same problem with 55 Bowman's being slabbed even if too big or too small than I do with most other issues.

Regards
Rich>>

I respectfully disagree. Such variations does not absolve a grading company's requirement to evaluate whether or not a card is re-glossed or not. Additionally, there are many, many issues that have size variances, not just 1955 Bowman's. A grading company's role is in part to evaluate whether or not a card is trimmed or not. This involves a review of edge patterns -- and not simply a ruler. There are MANY pre-war cards that measure correctly, but were originally oversized and subsequently trimmed down to "standard" size. Part of the service you pay for from a grading company is this expertise.

Marc

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Posted By: leon

I absolutely agree with you on the borders issue....If you want legit cards always try to buy BIG BORDERS...regardless of the holder. Every time I see an E101 or E102 (sorry for the OT over here) that is graded and has little borders, I kind of laugh.....Generally speaking they didn't start out that way.