Why the T205 Portrait Variations?

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Posted By: Matt

Is there any theory as to why several of the T205s have portrait variations? The same artist seems to have been used for the whole set (unlike the T206s) and the changes are odd - a few went from having open mouths to having closed mouths or from a 3/4 portrait to one that was more more head-on. In the middle of 1911 did it become impolite to be portrayed with your mouth opened?

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Posted By: Don

I was wondering this myself and searched for previous threads. All I found was this thread with no replies.

Does anyone have any info on the T205 portrait variations?

Thanks,

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Posted By: Tyler

Interesting point. Hal Chase was popular, so I could understand extra poses (like the 5 in the T206 set) but what about Wiltse and Bob Harmon, etc?

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Posted By: Matt E.

Good question, I would like to know the story behind it as well. Possibly due to the fact that baseball was becoming hugely popular in that time period and there were several factories were producing different cards of the players. Since no portrait variations exist in Minor Leaguers it may have been due to poularity of the player.

Bresnahan and Ford have different portraits as well. All of the players who have different poses are with the same team for each portrait.

Here is a link that shows the various T205 portrait variations as well as other variations.

http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseball/forsaleortradepage

Any T205 thread is a good thread

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Posted By: dan mckee

This is a great question. Bresnahan was another. 2 different years or print runs maybe?

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Posted By: J Levine

I think Dan nailed it...

All the T205s were a 1911 issue and printed probably around the beginning of the year until at least May.

There were several different print runs. Without having my research in front of me (at work) and working from memory, this is my theory.

There were at least 3 front (possibly as many as twenty back) print runs for the T205s (Chase bears this out with the three different variations). As far as I can tell, certain players were added and changed during the print runs. My theory, AND IT IS ONLY A THEORY, is that the original print run consisted of the open mouth variations and some of the pose variations (one ear, white cap, etc.). I think the second and third runs changed some of these portraits, including removing some cards as well. I feel that certain single prints were replaced altogether with minor leaguers or other single prints (Joss). I do not have the numbers in front of me but I do feel that the numbers do line up pretty well. I also feel that the first print run was limited and included only one or two advertisers were subsequent runs included many more advertisers and factories.

Just a theory though. We may never know.

Joshua

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Posted By: Matt

I always assumed as Dan and Josh have, the question is, why recommission artwork on some cards for a second run, just to create an entirely new image with the mouth/open or closed or the head at a slightly different angle?

My Trade/Sale Page

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Posted By: J Levine

We may never know why but it is fun to speculate. I do know that many of the images used for the T205 set come from actual photos that were then changed into portraits (as with many of the T206s). I can also speculate that the original photos for the open mouth and one ear variations might have been from action shots or poses where just the head and torso was painted. I know that the others, like Matty and Lobert, were just neck up head shots that were then painted that way. It may be that the producers finally got the head shots they wanted later on and recommissioned the new paintings to fit better into the set.

If you want to see some of the original photos, reprints are being sold on ebay fairly often. Just search t205 Mathewson picture.

Joshua

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Some variations might really be different cards. For example, if you had an original printing plate or uncut sheet, you might find that two variations were printed separately on the same plate. One didn't replace or update the other.

Note that the hobby does not consider the T206 Ty Cobb portrait green versus portrait red to be variations, but two different cards. Though this categorization is just a popular conceit, not some truth derived from objective analysis.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

David, I must disagree with you on Green/Red Cobb-there are other differences besides the background color (insignia, dark collars) on these. Clearly two different designs.

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Posted By: Don

Ok, here's what I belive is correct as far as I know. And keep in mind, I'm a T205 novice so I'm probably summing up stuff you guys have already memorized.

We have 220 cards in a "complete" set.

12 are what I would call print variations. No lines, crossed T's, extended frame, red vs white logo, etc. The front print variations might have some significance regarding print runs.

8 are actually differnt portraits of the same player.

This leaves exactly 200 cards figuring one for each player. Not sure if that's of any significance or not.

Also, there are 15 short prints. Again, not sure why and/or if it's tied into the reason for portrait variations and print runs.

Just summing up.

Now, just a casual inventory of all the portraits would lead me to believe there were at least 2 artists working on these.

I wonder if the print runs were all of one artist and maybe there was some unintentional duplication.

Just throwing all that out there for further discussion.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

With fine art prints, ala original Rembrandts and Durers, there are what is known as states. A different state is where the original printing plate was changed, for exampling changing or adding details or changing text. The additions were often because the printing plate wore down with time and details had to be put back in. The prints in different states are the equivalent to what card collectors call variations. If you look, you can find an original Rembrandt etching in different states, and even look for the specific changes that were made.

Art historians would say the corrected T206 Magee is in a later state.

Duly note that state refers only to where the same physical printing plate is used. If you copy a graphic and put into onto a different printing plate, that's a different thing.