Losing Customers Due to eBays new payment policies

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I just tell them I am sending them a check and I don't do paypal.

I have never had anyone tell me its unacceptable.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I have been given hassles and flat out refusals in the past when wishing to pay by check. I have also had buyers who will not pay by either check or PayPal, instead opting to go the money order route. "Do you take money orders?" has become a very popular question as of late. Oddly enough, none of those people end up winning my items.

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Posted By: jdrum

I've paid for money order or check for years even in auctions which state PayPal only. Ususally a brief, friendly note bf the auction ends telling them that you intend to bid if it is alright to pay by MO or check does the trick. Have not been turned down yet but I am sure it is coming.

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Posted By: Steve

As a seller I love it when a bidder asks if he could pay with a check or MO.

Checks and MO are my friends.


Steve

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Posted By: Jantz

I have had a few sellers that I have dealt with in the past contact me through Ebay's email system and outright tell me that if I wanted to pay with a check or money order that they would still accept either form of payment from me. I didn't have to ask. I thought it was kind of funny that some well known sellers were going around Ebay's rules. I see nothing wrong with this practice either, just savvy business men & women trying to earn a few bucks. Lets face it, in the end, Ebay still gets a cut of the final selling price anyway.

Jantz

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Posted By: Rick

An interesting topic and one close to my heart. I just purchased a card and despite sending an email asking if it were okay to purchase and pay with a cashiers check, I got no response for nearly two weeks after the closing. I bid on it anyway, was high bidder, emailed three times asking for name and address and got a snotty remark about not being able to read!
I do find many other sellers who respond affirmatively to cashiers check or money order but some auctions show "Paypal required" and you cannot bid on these items without a credit card number. Ebay will lose customers over this!

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Posted By: Jim VB

I'll admit to being dense, if someone can explain to me:

1) From a buyers point of view, what is the disadvantage of Paypal? (I understand why some sellers don't like it, but buyers?)

2) From the same buyers point of view, why would anyone prefer to pay by money order? (My Post Office is a mess to work with. People are nice enough, but lines are miles long, most of the time. Every trip there is a 20-30 minute excursion. I only go when I can use the machines to send a package.)

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Posted By: jdrum

I don't get money orders @ the post office. You can get Western Union a lot of places and I keep my checks in my office.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Quoting Jantz: "...just savvy business men & women trying to earn a few bucks."

More like savvy men and women trying not to get robbed of a few well-deserved bucks!

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Posted By: Jantz

Jodi - Well said...well said

Ebay is such a strange animal and possibly an extinct one in the future.

Jantz

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Posted By: Steve

From the same buyers point of view, why would anyone prefer to pay by money order?



Jim, some buyers just do not trust paypal. They do not want to link a CC
or bank account to the internet, some are just not computer savy enough.

I prolly am missing a few reasons too. All I know is that even after
Jan. 20th Buyers and sellers can still use paper payments, sellers just can't
list that they do.


Steve

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Steve,



Those are my reasons. I am adapting by just keeping a list of mailing addresses so I don't have to e-mail the seller every time I buy something.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Despite my ever advancing age and Luddite tendencies, I find it much easier to pay by electronic means. I pay as many bills and recurring charges as possible that way.

To me, having Paypal with access to my bank account and/or credit cards is much safer than thousands of ebay sellers having it. Every check you write has your account number and routing number on it. Sending those paper checks greatly increases the number of people with that information.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I prefer to buy with paypal for prtection as Jim stated. I use my credit card for double protection. I have had paypal deny a claim and then my credit card refund me and smoke paypal.

As a seller, of course I prefer check or money order because of the paypal fees but as Jim stated, it is easier and safer for the buyer so I have accepted the fact that I should accept paypal and I do now.

My problem is that I feel since I am being forced to accept electronic payments, that I should also be allowed to advertise and give incentives for paper payments. I agree the buyer should be able to decide how to pay including paypal, check or money order but none should be hidden or covered up as a payment option. Dan.

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Posted By: Steve

JimVB

I'm not saying they are right in that reasoning, just that it may be it.


Steve

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Posted By: Rich Klein

For non-plastic payments (i.e. Checks, Money Orders, Cash,...) there is a little matter that one can not legally give discounts for non-plastic payments.

If you are a merchant that accepts plastic; you can not legally

1) Impose a minimum on a credit card payment -- although the fees would make one like to do so. You can suggest that but you will be subject to a complaint if someone is upset at that. And you will get a formal warning, etc.

2) Say you will give a discount for payments other than plastic. Again, I understand from my retail days that there is a fee for plastic payments but again; as a merchant you are SOL if you do that and someone calls you on that.

This does not mean that I don't understand your views -- it's just a pesky little LEGAL issue

Regards
Rich Klein

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

"...there is a little matter that one can not legally give discounts for non-plastic payments"

Tell that to Bob Eaton at R&R. I for one am not complaining in saving 2% each time I send him a check.

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Posted By: Red

On #2 I believe it's legal to offer a discount for payment by cash or check. Like at the gas station when a cash discount is offered. What you can't do is offer to accept credit cards if an additional percentage is added on.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

http://www.gofso.com/Premium/LE/06_le_ic/fg/fg-merchants.html

This is a cool link to the discussion

Rich

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Posted By: Joann

Not trying to hijack the thread, but thought someone might have a quick answer to this one.

At least up until several years ago, a merchant was not permitted to demand a photo ID with a credit card unless the card was presented without a signature on the back. In that case, the merchant could require an ID that contained both a photo and a signature so he could compare the signature on the photo with the signature on the credit receipt. If the back of the card was signed prior to purchase, it was considered sufficient protection for the merchant to compare the existing card signature with the signature on the receipt just signed and card issuers generally didn't want customers being harassed for ID.

If a merchant insisted on seeing photo ID even though the back of the card was signed, you could complain to the issuing bank. Somehow it would work its way back to the standard contracts for merchants accepting credit cards and someone - issuing bank? someone else in the system? - could fine the offending merchant $2,000 per incident, per the contract.

Anyone know if that one is still alive?

Joann

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Posted By: jdrum

Looking at this another way. If Paypal is required and results in a substantial uptick in volume shouldn't they be able to lower their fees. Contra, if PayPal were to eventually become the only payment form accepted what mechanism could keep their fees in check?

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Posted By: dan mckee

I am going to have to disagree with you. I am not a legal expert by any means but I can assure you that I can find you 2 dozen convenience stores in Maryland and the Eastern Shore that have credit card services and will NOT accept a credit card for less than a $20 charge. 1 in Ocean City will take it for less but then charges you an extra .50 for that. Are you telling me I can call the credit card company and issue a complaint?? Dan

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Posted By: Rich Klein

YES!

You sure can file that complaint

Rich

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Posted By: dan mckee

cool, I will try it on 1 to see. Do I just call the number on the back of my card? The Ocean City one has an unfriendly chracter so I will use them as the guinnea pig,

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Once you talk to a live operator; explain what you are doing and let them either take the complaint or tell you whom to call.

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: PC

Credit card acceptance rules are set by VISA and MasterCard, and while the rules are written differently, you can draw the following general conclusions (note that Discover and Amex have somewhat different standards):

(1) the merchant cannot set a minimum amount for a VISA/MC credit card transaction -- simply having the sign up is a violation;

(2) with limited exceptions, the merchant cannot add fees or surcharges to VISA/MC credit card transactions -- however, the merchant can offer a discount for cash payments; and

(3) in regular/face-to-face retail transactions, the merchant is generally not permitted to ask for additional identification.

If you are inclined to report a merchant for violating these rules, you should contact VISA and/or MasterCard directly (not the bank that issued your credit card). VISA and MC will then speak to the merchant, or have the merchant's processing company do so. The consequences to the merchant will depend on a number of factors, but the harshest penalty in this instance would be losing the ability to accept credit cards.

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Posted By: Matt

"the harshest penalty in this instance would be losing the ability to accept credit cards."

Why would a credit card company enforce that punishment on the merchant?

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Posted By: Jim VB

"Why would a credit card company enforce that punishment on the merchant?"

Obviously the most extreme punishment, but it would only be meted out if the credit card company felt the merchant was causing damage to their brand.

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Posted By: PC

Merchants that want to accept credit/debit card payments have to sign an agreement that says (among many other things) they will comply with the rules established by card associations. So, the merchant would be punished, because the merchant is the one violating the card associations' rules.

It isn't like the MasterCard police show up if you accept credit cards and then try to collect more from customers seeking to pay with credit cards. But getting on the bad boy list (which is actually hard to do) makes it very difficult to obtain access to the credit card payment networks in the future.

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Posted By: Andrew S.

"Tell that to Bob Eaton at R&R. I for one am not complaining in saving 2% each time I send him a check."

Speaking of R&R, it's a shame that they and Hunt Auctions require personal credit card information to register.
I can guarantee that they've lost tens of thousands of dollars in winning bids from this buyer alone by requiring it. But it's probably a good thing for Jodi..less competition