Looking for the first name of a Colgan's subject

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Posted By: John S

Sorry that I do not have a scan of the card. I am trying to find information regarding player "Field" of Montreal including his first name. I am hoping that some of you speciality collectors are Canadian or Montreal fans. Any help would be appreciated.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Here is the scan, I would love to know his first name as well...
-Rhett

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Posted By: John S

...giving it one more try before I let the thread fade away.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

There is nothing in SABR's database. Not even a player with the last name "Field" playing anywhere in the minors in 1910-12. The database isn't complete though.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

John (and anyone else that cares) I think I may have found out who the Field from Montreal is. I was looking through some old Spalding Guides and I think the photo might actually be George H. Starnagle. Here is the 1909 Montreal team and Starnagle is #13. If this is true, I have no idea where they got the name "Field", however this is the same company that listed Bill Schardt of Milwaukee as "LaCrosse" in the Red Border set. Let me know what you guys think.
-Rhett
Field E254:


1909 Montreal:

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Posted By: John S

Rhett,

No doubt that you made a match. I must have searched two-dozen box scores on-line just trying to confirm that a "Field" actually played for Montreal. I never had any luck. Poor Starnagle...does he have any other cards?

The updated Colgan's checklist is near completion (I am on the "S" players). I will be snding a copy for your review within the next couple weeks.

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Posted By: leon

That's really nice work.....good job.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

look like Starnagle to me. Part of hair is the same but bottom lip and rest of face definitely look different to me. Just my opinion though....

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

That looks like Starnagle to me, too. GREAT work!!!

Rhett, I'd love to see a copy of the updated list. Can you get it to the Standard Catalog folks for the next issue? Several years ago I got them to correct Lelivelt... years back he was listed as Jack. But that was wrong, he is Jack's brother, Bill, who was a pitcher for Detroit.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I'm not sure it looks enough like Starnagle to me either. Not enough that I would be convinced to change it in the SCD if I were the editor.

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Posted By: Glenn

I'd also have to say it's not the same guy.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

There are several errors in the players pictures (ie wrong players pictured for the teams that are listed). However, of those missing their first names from the Standard Catalog (the 2008 edition) are as follows...


Baerwald, Rudolph F. (played in Majors under name John Bell)
Buemiller, Albert (Al)
Burke, James T. (Jimmy)
Davis, Alfonzo D. (Lefty) St. Paul
Fitzgerald, Matthew W. (Matty)
Howard, George E. (Del)
Manser, James V. (Vernon)
McCarthy, Joseph V. (Joe)
McConnell, George N. (Slats)
Merritt, George W.
Meyer, Bernhard (Benny)
Moran, Roy E. (Deedle)
Owens, Frank W. (catcher-not to be confused w/ pitcher Frank M. Owen)
Rock, Royal
Selby, Orville M.
Smith, George H. (Heinie)
Sullivan, Suter G.
Taylor, John W. (Jack)
Walker, Scott
Waller, John F. (Red)
Woods, Walter S.

I'm sure John will have more to add when he gets his checklist done...
-Rhett

Edited because I pushed send before I was done

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Tom, I see what you are saying about the face, however the right side of the face on the Colgans card appears to be washed out due to light- there isn't much facial detail on that side of the entire face. I think that is why they might appear slightly different. The hair & hairline that "Field" had is identical to that of Starnagle.
-Rhett

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Rhett, I would say that there is some similarity, but I wouldn't stop looking.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

To be honest I am surprised there are so many that don't think it is him. Anyways, if it not Starnagle than there is nobody else that played for Montreal during that vintage that it could possibly be.

The hair on those 2 guys is exactly the same, and if you cover each of the 2 photos right side (where the Colgans is washed out the people look the same).

If any of you guys have a better explanation, I would like to hear it.
-Rhett

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I think you nailed it--good job!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Well I don't think it's definitive that's all....I did find another pic of Starnagle. With the 1906 Sioux City team

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Since the Colgan's and the photo in question are both full frontal face shots (wow, does that sound pornographic!), maybe someone with mad photoshop skills can overlay them atop each either (SEE: previous parenthetical comment!).

Shawn

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

the same guy

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Posted By: John S

Obviously arguments can be made regarding differences between the two photos; but it is difficult to deny that the Colgan's Field and the individual in the Montreal team picture are the same person.

Rhett and I have spent significant chunks of time just trying to find records of a "Field" playing for any team (obviously focusing on Montreal and the Eastern League) with no luck. This debate would become more interesting if someone could unearth records of a "Field" playing for any team during the first twenty years of the 1900's.

Take any two photos of a player, add them to pool of hundreds of pictures of indivduals in the same demographic (in basically the same pose), and differences become glaring (because of the similarities).

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Posted By: Bilko G

I don't think they are the same person either, just my opinion.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

there's tons of guys with the 'butt cut' in that Montreal team photo. Pretty common cut. I just think the eyes on the Field guy look like they're more square and the eyebrows thicker than on Starnagle whose eyes look more round and eyebrows thinner. But....caveat being that it's difficult on that team photo to really distinguish because the clarity isn't the best. And.....I can't refute the lack of FIELD information out there, so who knows.

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Posted By: Shawn

The angle of the chin in both pictures, I think is a dead give-away... A match! IMO

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Posted By: leon

If it's not him it's his twin brother. Compare his picture to the rest in the book....

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Posted By: Mike

The whole lack of information on anyone named Field having played in that time/space seems the most convincing evidence that something is amiss.

As for the identifications, Field looks to me like a young Thomas Haden Church and Starnagle more like Jeffrey Jones when he was Ferris Bueller's principal.

--
Mike