S74 Silks

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Posted By: Todd C

Are these popular amongst the Net 54 collectors ?

Are certain players harder to find than others ? I own 3 or 4 Matty's and about 20 silks total, with only a couple with the backing in the White series.

Personally, I find the colored series more appealing, especially when you get one in superb condition.


Thoughts ?

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Posted By: steve

I own two colored silks of Matty & W.Johnson - both high grade. If I ever see high grade upper tier HOFer S74's, I will be bidding to win baby!

steve

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Posted By: andy becker

they are popular with me

seriously, s74's are pretty well collected by a few and others have a type for their collection.

i am a pretty hardcore s74-1 (white silks) collector.....but i only collect silks with the backing intact. my collection has an emphasis on rarer backs and unfolded silks.

the five different backs are (in order of scarcity...lowest to highest)
-old mill
-turkey red
-turkey red with frame
-red sun
-helmar

red sun is very tough and helmar is next to impossible. i know of three helmar silks.

white silks also come in three different color fronts.

black and red (maroon) are the most common. blue is the most difficult.


both white (s74-1) and colored (s74-2) were issued folded. i suppose s74-2 could be ironed out to appear to have never been folded. s74-1 in unfolded form is very difficult to find.

feel free to post or email me and i will try to answer any questions.

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Posted By: Ed Hans

I like the S74 colored silks, especially the gold, pink, red, and orange colors. I would have loved to bid on the lot in REA, but it was out of my price range. They do seem to show up less frequently these days, and when they do, they are usually damaged (frayed, sewn, no back, etc.) Lipset's encyclopedia identifies about two dozen double prints (including Cobb and Mathewson) in the colored series. Other than that, I'm not aware of any subjects being more difficult than the rest.


Andy, I'd love to see an unfolded white silk. I have yet to lay eyes on one. I never knew that the colored silks were also folded when issued. They can frequently be found without folds or creases.

Good luck if you're trying to put a set together. A high grade one would be a sight to behold.

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Posted By: andy becker

hi ed,
i hope you are well.

we are in the process of selling our house, so i have moved my collection off-site. i will send you a scan of an unfolded silk shortly, but it will be a few days.

i had a near set of white silks a while back but sold those to another board member.

i only retained the rare backs, some hofers, and the unfolded group.

silks have gotten tougher as of late and prices have gone up.

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Posted By: Jimmy

Todd,

Even the non-sports silks are popular, maybe not as expensive. I had some real nice ones in the past and just picked up a few colored baseball silks from a collection. There will be guide for just silks coming out later this year.

Ed you did not mention purple!!! one of the best looking

Jimmy

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Posted By: Ed Hans

Jimmy,
Agreed. I did forget that color, in part because I don't own one of them. They do seem to appear with somewhat less frequency. I wonder if Andy (or other silk experts) have noticed if any of the S74-2 colors are scarcer than others. To me gold, green, and blue seem to show up most frequently. The aforementioned purple, orange, and pink may be slightly more difficult. Just my observations; not based on any scientific study.

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Posted By: Jimmy

I had one Water Johnson purple

Jimmy

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Posted By: Jimmy

Ed,

I have only seen 2 purple and a few orange, they do seem harder to find - the pink ones I do see sometimes

I noticed the Cobb on the REA auction, I sold one back in 2002 for 800.00 dollars

Jimmy

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Posted By: joe

Ed, if you do a search on s74 silks you will find some silks that I posted. There is an unfolded silk with the backing in that post. That was about a week or so ago.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

Only have two and you guessed it, both Carrigan. Not paper backed, but in good condition.

Rawn

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Posted By: joe

Ed, here is the no fold S74 Silk with backing.

Joe




Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Ed Hans

Thanks Joe. That's a terrific card.

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Posted By: andy becker

ok.....i just choked on my coffee
expert, hardly. addict, most definitely.
there are a few board members that have collected silks for 10-20 years longer than i. i consider them the experts.
my opinion of the s74-2 color scarcity is that deep red is the least common, followed by ivory, then purple. i think the rest of the colors are pretty interchangeable.

joe, thanks for posting the unfolded silk. that's a beautiful piece.

regarding red sun silks (s74-1), i have seen two front colors: maroon and blue. what i find interesting is (in my experience) that all the blue fronts are not folded and that all the maroon fronts are all folded. it would obviously be simple to fold a blue front, but has anyone ever seen an unfolded maroon front red sun?

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Posted By: joe

Here is a colored silk, no fold. The 2 I posted are the only ones I have that are not folded. This certainly could have been ironed out. I don't know.


Joe





Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: ron

Hi All,
I would agree with Andy, The deep Red is the least seen. Of the 5 Red Suns in my collection. All are folded. 4 red and 1 brown. I also have a few unfolded and them all being Turkey Reds.

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Posted By: MikeB

I have a Doc White that is not folded. I also have a Red Mathewson (GAI 6.5) Does anyone else grade these?

Mike

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Posted By: Todd C

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Posted By: jim

Hi Todd,

Silks are special. Been collecting S74's off and on for a little while. Pretty much off now but I still appreciate them. Here's what I've run into with the colored series: Toughest HOF'ers have been Young and Speaker. The open mouth Bresnahan, Wheat and Bender aren't too far behind.

Regarding colors, purple and ivory seem the most scarce followed by red, pink and blue. Different shades of gold, yellow, tan and teal seem to appear more frequently.

If you figure different cloth colors, ink colors and manufacturers, the possible combinations available for each player become almost endless. Would be nice to hear how many different combo's anyone has of a single player.

Keep Smiling!

Jim

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Posted By: Jimmy

click below to see my purple silk

Thanks Jimmy

http://www.jbsportsauctions.com/silks.html

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Posted By: Ron

Hi All,
As you can see I have a few Klings.

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Posted By: Darren

Hey Ron,

How many copies of "Catcher in the Rye" do you own???

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Hi, everyone. I've been collecting S74s for nearly forty years (since my grandfather gave me seven that he'd saved from the days when he acquired them in the packs of Old Mill Cigarettes that he smoked) and am down to needing only a couple of S74-1s with backs. Unfortunately, I never thought to ask him about the folding issue before he passed away.

I nonetheless have a couple of comments to offer, based upon my years of pursuing these, pertinent to the comments above. First, trying to ascertain which is the rarest color among the S74-2s is probably a thankless task. I have seen so many silks in so many different shades of nearly every color that trying to draw lines between those colors is difficult. My impression is that the manufacturer fed whatever color ribbon he had available that day into the machine. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason -- at least that I can ascertain -- regarding which players appear in which colors. And, indeed, the collection of Klings above demonstrates that quite clearly.

Second, the idea that any of these (S74-1 or S74-2) were actually folded before insertion into the packs seems unlikely. If the packs were too small to handle one or the other unfolded, how does one explain the presence of some S74-1s that appear never to have been folded? My suspicion is that the adhesive by which the silks were attached to the backings provided a source of tension that led to the creasing. I can't prove it, but it always seemed like a more probable explanation -- especially since the amount of creasing from card to card varies as much as it does.

Just the ramblings of an old man, but I've sure run through plenty of S74s!

Regards all,

Millerhouse

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Dear Ron with the Klings,

I have in my collection a colored silk of Kling (shown, instead, with the Cubs) on a blank cardboard backing with, if memory serves me correctly, cut lines showing in one or more of the corners. (I don't recall the color of the silk.) I've always assumed it to be a proof because no Kling (either S74-1 or S74-2) has, to my knowledge, ever appeared showing him with the Cubs. I've always assumed that the manufacturer was experimenting before issuing the backed S74-1s.

When home tonight, I'll try to dig it out and e-mail a scan of it to Leon for posting. Like the dorskinds, I've yet to figure out how to post a scan here directly.

Best regards all, once again,

Millerhouse

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Posted By: ron

Hi Millerhouse,
I have not been collecting silks as long as you. But I am also missing 4 white series with backing to complete my set. Having completed 2 colored and missing a handful to complete 2 more. Was wondering if you could email me the ones you are missing to complete your whites series. Maybe we are missing the same ones and were put under the white series but actually only exist in the colored series. I have always wondered if these few I am missing actually exist. Would love any information you could provide.
Best regards,
Ron

ronskaggs@comcast.net

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Posted By: leon

Please send any scans you want to post and I will do it for you. Always glad to help good 'ole collectors, especially type collectors ...... My home email is best which is the one posted here. Thanks for sharing your information on these. We appreciate it very much.
kind regards

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Posted By: David Smith

Hello all,

I have read through the posts on this thread and have a couple of questions.

These are the only colored silks that I own and I am now wondering if they are more scarce than I previously thought. To me, it looks like I have an Ivory, a Pink and three Blue silks, is this true? Also, is the Bresnahan the open mouth version and is it scarce?

Thanks for your help,

David

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I think my Chase is deeper yellow than what I've seen, but scanners can vary so much and my eyes are getting bad, so maybe others have some this tone (which is much more pronounced in hand):

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Posted By: Ed Hans

David,
You have 2 blue silks. The Bresnahan would be considered green, I believe. The open mouth version, by the way, is one of the 24 double prints identified by Lew Lipset in his encyclopedia, the opposite of T205 where the open mouth variation is scarcer.

I agree with Millerhouse about the varying shades. There are almost an infinite variety of colors, if one were to count all the different shades.

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Posted By: David Smith

Ed,

Thank you for your response and information. I didn't know if the two blue silks were considered blue or teal. As far as the Bresnahan goes, I will have to go and look at Mr. Lipset's encyclopedia again. Something I haven't done, as far as the silks go, in years.

David

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Posted By: Ron

Hi All,
Can anyone on this board verify that the Leach,Raymond,Scanlon,Steinfeldt (Rustlers) exist in the White series. If they would post scans of any of these players. I have spoke offline to a few die hard silk collectors like myself who would love to know if these exist. They do exist in the colored series which I have in white but have a cigarette brand on them. For diehard silk collectors these seem to be the missing links to there sets.
Best regards,
Ron

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Posted By: joe

S74 Silk experts, is there a color silk of Jones Detroit?

Thanks joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Joe,

No question. Jones can be found in both the white and colored sets.

Millerhouse

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Posted By: joe

Thanks, Millerhouse, I guess that is the one Detroit silk I am missing. Well, I don't have all the color variations, but one of each except that one.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!